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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242551: May 16th 2018 at 8:54:02 AM

[up]Absolutely, which is my point. That Communist Dictatorships don't typically employ hereditary rule, so the fact that North Korea does is a strong piece of evidence against it being ideologically Communist.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#242552: May 16th 2018 at 9:17:30 AM

It is kind of amusing since your usual People's Republic of Tyranny has at least one element of truth to its name. But the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is not democratic or even a republic (which also casts doubt on the people's part). In fact, it's not even (all of) Korea.

edited 16th May '18 9:18:02 AM by Hodor2

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242553: May 16th 2018 at 9:17:56 AM

Bottom line is, Kim is playing Trump like a fiddle...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#242554: May 16th 2018 at 9:23:52 AM

Well, the last thing Kim Jong Un wants is for the US to actually attack North Korea. It's a tightrope act: fail to maintain your nation's militaristic fervor and you fall to internal revolution; go too far in provoking other nations and you get obliterated from without.

I doubt that Un himself is making most of those decisions; his staff are the ones who are the most experienced in this game and are probably feeding him directions. Surely enough of them have a sense of reality to know how badly they'd fare in a real shooting war.

edited 16th May '18 9:24:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#242555: May 16th 2018 at 9:29:28 AM

@Ambar: The two aren't mutually exclusive per se, though Commie-Nazis are highly rare. It's not even the horseshoe effect, fascism just isn't on the left-right political spectrum. Fascism's mostly a set of cultural and military goals; communism is mostly centered around economic policy. There's just no reason why you can't be The Empire and redistribute wealth at the same time.

They're a very rare combo because fascism is nationalistic and pro-establishment by nature and communism is revolutionary by nature. Having said that, communists eventually become the establishment and therefore nationalistic elements tend to seep in. This goes back to before the founding of the Soviet Union, with nationalists defecting to the side of communism, believing it'll bring glory to the motherland.

In the case of North Korea, they're what I'd call "cultural communists" in that they use a lot of communist symbols and culture (things like hatred of religion, for example). However, economically, the only wealth equality they seem to have is that (aside from the Kims) nobody owns anything. I wouldn't them capitalist either, they're just some other third thing.

Leviticus 19:34
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#242556: May 16th 2018 at 9:31:05 AM

Senate Intelligence Committee has come out with the complete opposite of the House committee and said they agree with our intelligence agencies, that Russia did interfere with the election to help Trump win.

Suck it, Nunes.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#242557: May 16th 2018 at 9:38:06 AM

Re:TV Tropes being discussed on other sites.

I won't link to avoid to the importing drama rule, but this is actually from this year:

Jesus Cristo, I knew TV Tropes as a whole was an infected hellhole, but goddamn, this would probably elevate it to plagued. Everyone in the US Politics thread is a fucking sped who only gleams off the surface and never goes deeper at all. Where do they get this shit, the goddamn tabloids!?

sped: one who attends special education classes. tongue

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#242558: May 16th 2018 at 9:40:38 AM

"The two aren't mutually exclusive per se, though Commie Nazis are highly rare. It's not even the horseshoe effect, fascism just isn't on the left-right political spectrum. Fascism's mostly a set of cultural and military goals; communism is mostly centered around economic policy. There's just no reason why you can't be The Empire and redistribute wealth at the same time."

Fascism absolutely is on the left-right spectrum. It's combination of romanticist traditionalism, corporatism, anti-communism, working class herrenvolk economics, middle class family values support, racism, and militarism are of a milieu that is at the very heart of conservative thinking, even if most conservatives worldwide don't subscribe to that exact, or entire programme of ideology. To deny it is to whitewash the right of culpability in extremist politics.

edited 16th May '18 9:41:46 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#242559: May 16th 2018 at 9:47:49 AM

So a Republican candidate for Georgia's gubernatorial race is driving around a "Deportation Bus" reading "Stay Back 1000 Feet" and "DANGER! MURDERERS, RAPISTS, KIDNAPPERS, CHILD MOLESTORS, AND OTHER CRIMINALS ON BOARD"

Other Republican candidates are ignoring the Elephant in the Room (although another one has an ad where he says "I got a big truck, just in case I need to round up criminal illegals and take them home myself,"), but Democrats are gleefully pointing out how hyper-racist this asshole is.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242560: May 16th 2018 at 9:52:41 AM

Absolutely, which is my point. That Communist Dictatorships don't typically employ hereditary rule, so the fact that North Korea does is a strong piece of evidence against it being ideologically Communist.

Actually, they do it all the time. It just doesn't generally work out. Ceausecu's wife and children were deeply involved in the Romanian government (to the point that there was a running joke about "socialism in one family"), and Mao's wife played a major role in the PRC and Gang of Four.

More importantly for the discussion of "can they be called fascist", hereditary leadership is no more a hallmark of Fascism than it is of Communism. There are some Fascist and neofascist states that have absolutely gone in for hereditary leadership. There are some that have not—Hitler, notably, did not even have children.

Dictatorships, regardless of right/left, run a high statistical chance of becoming nepotistic and even making the transition to hereditary rule. You see it with the Kims the same way you see it with the Assads.

edited 16th May '18 9:57:06 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#242561: May 16th 2018 at 9:54:36 AM

OT, but have discussed this some, especially with Ambar, and my understanding (others are better read than I) is that while there was a specific subset of Nazism with a communist/socialist bent called Strasserism, the Nazis as a whole weren't on board (read they slaughtered Strasserites, including one of the Strasser brothers and exiled the other). And even that wasn't really legitimately anti-capitalist, as it distinguished between evil, Jewish capitalism (obviously the same thing if you are a Nazi) and good, Aryan capitalism (ditto).

But on the whole (and agreeing with Zephyr here), Nazism and Fascism come across to me like an extreme/evil version of your various political parties that are socially conservative but support a safety net and other social welfare policies. And I'm not just talking about fascist adjacent right wing populist types, but also the kind of moderate conservative parties various European countries have, often called Christian Democrats.

Which doesn't quite fit with (American) conservatism to the extent that it is assumed to be free market capitalist (which of course is not to say that some (American) conservatives aren't Fascist/Nazi sympathizers), but does mean that Fascism and Nazism fit pretty comfortably within European conservative political parties.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#242562: May 16th 2018 at 10:18:31 AM

The quote provided at the top of the page is from Kiwi Farms, and there's already been an extensive discussion in the Trolling, Free Speech, and the Law thread about that rotten swamp (for anyone curious, the discussion pages are 69 onwards).

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242563: May 16th 2018 at 10:56:45 AM

"These Idaho primaries were quite different, but each victor spoke Tuesday of hope"

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/election/article211126534.html


So the Idaho primaries concluded and the big race, the Governor primary ended with the Republican nominee being moderate Brad Little, endorsed by our current governor, and Paulette Jordan.

Main reason I bring it up is because with these results and the House primary having its own candidate, my local rep, Raul "A Founding Member of the Freedom Caucus" Labrador, will be effectively out of commission for at least a while come November, as his House term is up and he failed his gubernatorial bid.

Given my concerns that a female Native American has been slim odds at winning in a Red State, I feel some comfort that at least a moderate will be the alternative and not a big name tea partier.

That said, I'd love to be proven wrong about Jordan and have every intention of voting for her. I just don't like the odds very much and feel victory depends on high Democratic turnout (and it was higher than expected in my county in particular)

There's also a chance that both Lieutenant Governor candidates will be women, a first in Idaho's history.

edited 16th May '18 10:58:00 AM by sgamer82

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#242564: May 16th 2018 at 11:35:45 AM

Speaking of socialism-for-whites-only, Trump has failed to deliver on his populist promises of government spending on white people and has embraced the Republican economic orthodoxy.

I would almost feel sorry for Republican voters if it hadn't been an entire generation since Reagan. Their elected politicians are consistently lying to them and refusing to deliver the policies that they're elected on. They should know that the only way that they're getting any government spending is if they go Democrat.

@Hodor 2: American conservatism is a combination of conservative social values of a type not really seen in Europe ("guns, God and freedom!" is the kind of idea that'd get you put in a straitjacket in most of Europe) combined with economic classical liberalism (which exists, but outside the Anglosphere, isn't usually tied in with the local brand of social conservatism).

edited 16th May '18 11:38:27 AM by Ramidel

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242565: May 16th 2018 at 11:46:05 AM

Kremlin Used NRA to Help Trump in 2016, Senate Report Says

The Senate Judiciary Committee said Wednesday that the Russian government apparently used the National Rifle Association to help Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in 2016.

Documents suggest the Kremlin used the NRA to offer the campaign a back channel to Moscow—including a potential meeting between Trump and Vladimir Putin—and might have secretly funded Trump’s campaign, the committee said. One of the Russians named in the report even bragged she was part of the Trump campaign’s communications with Russia, The Daily Beast reported last year.

The NRA spent a record $30 million on Trump and the FBI is reportedly investigating whether any of the money came from Russia. U.S. law prohibits foreign money to be spent on elections.

Two Russian nationals figure prominently in the alleged scheme: Alexander Torshin, deputy governor of the Kremlin’s central bank, and his then-deputy Maria Butina.

Torshin met Donald Trump Jr. at the NRA’s 2016 convention in Kentucky and hosted an NRA delegation in Moscow in 2015. Torshin was previously accused by Spanish investigators of laundering money for Russian mobsters, an allegation he denied. (Last month he was sanctioned by the U.S.)

Butina founded a pro-gun group in Russia before coming to the United States in 2015 when she immediately began ingratiating herself in conservative circles. Butina started a business with NRA member and GOP activist Paul Erickson.

In May 2016, the same month Torshin met Trump Jr. at the NRA convention, Erickson emailed a Trump advisor about setting up a meeting between the candidate and Putin.

“Putin is deadly serious about building a good relationship with Mr. Trump,” he wrote, according to the New York Times. “He wants to extend an invitation to Mr. Trump to visit him in the Kremlin before the election.”

The judiciary committee’s report was released on the same day the Senate intelligence committee broke with Republicans on the House intelligence committee and said Russia clearly favored Trump in the 2016 election.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#242566: May 16th 2018 at 12:17:16 PM

Nice to know I can call the NRA traitors without hesitation now.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#242567: May 16th 2018 at 12:47:04 PM

So I know that people go on and on about Trump getting a Nobel Prize in this thread, but so far as I can tell it's just something that either Trump or a supporter in the crowd said, and not anything that anyone with the authority to appoint the prize said. So why do we keep focusing on it? Seems like a non issue.

[up][up]

OH BOY. I kind of hope this nerfs the NRA's influence forever, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

edited 16th May '18 12:47:49 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#242568: May 16th 2018 at 12:48:11 PM

It's so perfectly emblematic of Trump's personality and why he's so hilariously unfit for office.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#242569: May 16th 2018 at 12:50:39 PM

[up][up]

Because South Korea's President made an off-hand comment about how Trump would deserve the award if peace actually got brokered.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#242570: May 16th 2018 at 1:00:29 PM

I have to go to a thing right now, but I just got linked to this. Can anyone confirm? The Senate apparently voted in favor of rolling back Ajit Pai's rollbacks of net neutrality.

https://twitter.com/EdKrassen/status/996838881550131200

edited 16th May '18 1:01:11 PM by AceofSpades

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#242571: May 16th 2018 at 1:01:20 PM

Please give more than just a link to the tweet. Yes, the Senate did vote to reinstate Net Neutrality. It's going absolutely nowhere: the House won't pass it, and Trump won't sign it.

edited 16th May '18 1:01:31 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242572: May 16th 2018 at 1:01:58 PM

Still it'll be good ammunition against Republicans when it inevitably fails.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#242573: May 16th 2018 at 1:03:11 PM

Guys. This just broke my brain. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/16/trump-financial-disclosure-includes-michael-cohen-payment.html

It's a Foxnews article that actually covers Trump fairly reasonably. I did not expect to see the words "hush money" in an article, unless it was contextualized by saying "which was paid by the generous Trump to not distract the American people from this frivolous whore."

[up][up][up][up] Fucking Moon. Still pissed about that. Like, I get it. But I'm still mad.

edited 16th May '18 1:03:40 PM by Larkmarn

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#242574: May 16th 2018 at 1:22:07 PM

Fucking Moon. Still pissed about that. Like, I get it. But I'm still mad.

I’ve heard that the quote was mistranslated, it was more like “I don’t care about the damn medal, he can get it if that’ll make him happy. We just want peace.”

But I haven’t seen a full confirmation by a news source that I consider fully reliable, or by a Korean speaker, so take it with a grain of salt.

edited 16th May '18 1:23:16 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242575: May 16th 2018 at 1:22:07 PM

Fucking Moon. Still pissed about that. Like, I get it. But I'm still mad.

I’ve heard that the quote was mistranslated, it was more like “I don’t care about the damn medal, he can get it if that’ll make him happy. We just want peace.”

But I haven’t seen a full confirmation by a news source that I consider fully reliable, or by a Korean speaker, so take it with a grain of salt.

edited 16th May '18 1:23:16 PM by TheWanderer

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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