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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#242376: May 15th 2018 at 10:35:03 AM

Trump, at least for now, has an expiration date and if we get our shit together, if not as a country then as a party, we can halve that.

Xi is staying in power for the duration, as is Erdogan. Ergogan even took his military coup vaccine just to make sure that's not the way he leaves — the military won't be able to help Turkey get rid of him, or ever veer back towards secularism ever again.

Putin is a toss-up. There's going to come a time when he loses his Vetinari Job Security.

edited 15th May '18 10:35:47 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#242377: May 15th 2018 at 10:51:11 AM

Also, Xi's successor will be in it for the duration.

Then again, I don't see Xi as part of the Putinocracy. He's going for his own version of authoritarianism.

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#242378: May 15th 2018 at 10:57:44 AM

You know what a worst scenario could be? that Trump deliberately starts a conflict one year before his term ends to garner support for his reelection.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242379: May 15th 2018 at 11:00:29 AM

From the News & Guts Facebook page: The unintended consequences of Donald Trump's policies are stepping on the backs of some of his supporters. Said one in Kentucky, "I feel so stupid."

Hopping Off The Trump Train: President’s Policies Hurting His Supporters

As one small business owner said of his support for Donald Trump, “I feel like I’ve been tricked by the devil.” The Lexington Herald-Leader has a must-read on a Kentucky man who supported Donald Trump but also desperately needs seasonal workers via the government’s H2-B visa program.

Eddie Devine voted for President Donald Trump because he thought he would be good for American business. Now, he says, the Trump administration’s restrictions on seasonal foreign labor may put him out of business.”

Devine says it has been years since he could find enough dependable, drug-free American workers for his $12-an-hour jobs mowing and tending landscapes for cemeteries, shopping centers and apartment complexes across Central Kentucky.

So for years, Devine has hired season workers, mostly from Guatemala, to help him with his lawn care business. But then came restrictions on guest-worker visas.

“Devine says he lost a $100,000 account because he didn’t have enough men to do the job. He’s worried he may be out of business next year if things don’t improve.”

“These workers aren’t immigrants, and there is no path to U.S. citizenship. When their seasonal work is done, they return home. That’s why Devine thinks the Trump administration’s stifling of guest-worker programs has more to do with racism than economics. “I think there’s a war on brown people,” he said.”

“But what makes him most angry is that Trump’s properties in Florida and New York have used 144 H-2B workers since 2016. “I want to know why it’s OK for him to get his workers, but supporters like me don’t get theirs,” Devine said.”

As for supporting Trump? “I feel so stupid.”

The Washington Post Daily 202 column is chock full of other examples of Trump’s unintended consequences including:

  • An auto plant that makes compact car laying off workers because demand is down…a demand that has slid since Trump relaxed fuel efficiency standards.

  • Gas prices, already skyrocketing, may go higher because Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal

  • Also, airplane manufacturer Boeing stands to lose $20 billion because of the Iran deal. The company had contracts with Iran that will go away if the U.S. reimposes sanctions.

  • American farmers are also out of luck if Trump’s team can’t work out a trade deal with China. Soybean farmers sell 60% of their exports to the Chinese.

edited 15th May '18 11:04:01 AM by sgamer82

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242380: May 15th 2018 at 11:23:58 AM

Russia isnt too hard to bring to heel, because their digital infrastructure is far more vulnerable than ours is. "Tit fot tat" should be sufficient.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242381: May 15th 2018 at 11:25:06 AM

Re-posting page bottomer:


From the News & Guts Facebook page: The unintended consequences of Donald Trump's policies are stepping on the backs of some of his supporters. Said one in Kentucky, "I feel so stupid."

Hopping Off The Trump Train: President’s Policies Hurting His Supporters

As one small business owner said of his support for Donald Trump, “I feel like I’ve been tricked by the devil.” The Lexington Herald-Leader has a must-read on a Kentucky man who supported Donald Trump but also desperately needs seasonal workers via the government’s H2-B visa program.

Eddie Devine voted for President Donald Trump because he thought he would be good for American business. Now, he says, the Trump administration’s restrictions on seasonal foreign labor may put him out of business.”

Devine says it has been years since he could find enough dependable, drug-free American workers for his $12-an-hour jobs mowing and tending landscapes for cemeteries, shopping centers and apartment complexes across Central Kentucky.

So for years, Devine has hired season workers, mostly from Guatemala, to help him with his lawn care business. But then came restrictions on guest-worker visas.

“Devine says he lost a $100,000 account because he didn’t have enough men to do the job. He’s worried he may be out of business next year if things don’t improve.”

“These workers aren’t immigrants, and there is no path to U.S. citizenship. When their seasonal work is done, they return home. That’s why Devine thinks the Trump administration’s stifling of guest-worker programs has more to do with racism than economics. “I think there’s a war on brown people,” he said.”

“But what makes him most angry is that Trump’s properties in Florida and New York have used 144 H-2B workers since 2016. “I want to know why it’s OK for him to get his workers, but supporters like me don’t get theirs,” Devine said.”

As for supporting Trump? “I feel so stupid.”

The Washington Post Daily 202 column is chock full of other examples of Trump’s unintended consequences including:

  • An auto plant that makes compact car laying off workers because demand is down…a demand that has slid since Trump relaxed fuel efficiency standards.

  • Gas prices, already skyrocketing, may go higher because Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal

  • Also, airplane manufacturer Boeing stands to lose $20 billion because of the Iran deal. The company had contracts with Iran that will go away if the U.S. reimposes sanctions.

  • American farmers are also out of luck if Trump’s team can’t work out a trade deal with China. Soybean farmers sell 60% of their exports to the Chinese.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242382: May 15th 2018 at 11:28:40 AM

This is a good moment for progressives to appeal to some of Trumps more intelligent supporters, and even peel some of them from the Republican party.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#242383: May 15th 2018 at 11:31:52 AM

I'm a vindictive person by nature, which is something I really try to curb, because good people shouldn't be vindictive, but damn does that sing to me. Trump voters starting to feel the hurt because of what Trump is doing.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#242384: May 15th 2018 at 11:34:01 AM

... both y'all are right.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242385: May 15th 2018 at 11:37:39 AM

Though "Hah, hah, karma's a bitch!" probably wont get many of them to vote for us...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242386: May 15th 2018 at 11:39:45 AM

Doesn't really matter, nothing we say here is going to have any impact on whether significant numbers of them vote for Democrats or not.

Thus I feel rather comfortable saying "ha ha karma's a bitch".

Also most Trump supporters aren't going to vote for Democrats, the best they can do is not vote. And that can be accomplished by Trump continuing to be terrible and Democrats underscoring his terribleness.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242387: May 15th 2018 at 11:40:15 AM

I'm not exactly going to feel super sorry for anyone who figures out they've been duped by Trump, but I can't imagine that rubbing their noses in it would be productive either.

But this is just a forum, not someone actually doing that to a real person to their face.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242388: May 15th 2018 at 11:45:07 AM

We dont need "significant numbers", we just need a million or so. Remember, the Dems nearly won last time, and that was before Republican buyers remorse. Winning the WH in 2020 is very doable.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242389: May 15th 2018 at 11:54:51 AM

I'm well aware of how close the previous election was and how even a relatively smaller number of his voters not voting for him could seriously hurt his election chances.

Doesn't really change my point, the people who are a Trump supporter as a rule almost certainly aren't going to vote for a Democrat. Thus the best that can be done is to convince them to stay home.

And that ultimately what we do in this forum is not going to really effect that one way or another. Thus I see no harm in having zero sympathy for them.

edited 15th May '18 11:55:14 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#242390: May 15th 2018 at 12:00:54 PM

[up]

Looking at America from over here in the Disunited Kingdoms and it seems the Democrats aren't exactly going to struggle to win the White House if they stop their circular firing squad over whether to be fully left-wing or not. If they manage a unified platform I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see an amendment-viable supermajority of states if things keep on this way, although I have no idea what you might want to do with it other than preemptively get rid of the debt ceiling and any further Republican attempts at passing a Balanced Budget amendment. You might well win on demographic shift alone, like how support for Brexit has dropped 4 points from 52/48 leave to the other way around just from a complete lack of government competence and the last year's worth of younger voters being overwhelmingly pro-Remain.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242391: May 15th 2018 at 12:03:15 PM

People keep saying that, but I remember some data that says the Democrats are actually more unified than they've been in years.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242392: May 15th 2018 at 12:07:00 PM

Sadly, there was a similar story out of New England about how they were screwed over by the same migrant worker problem.

Their response, "I'd still vote for Trump and hope he learns of our problems here."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#242393: May 15th 2018 at 12:07:55 PM

Doesn't really matter, nothing we say here is going to have any impact on whether significant numbers of them vote for Democrats or not.

Thus I feel rather comfortable saying "ha ha karma's a bitch".

Also most Trump supporters aren't going to vote for Democrats, the best they can do is not vote. And that can be accomplished by Trump continuing to be terrible and Democrats underscoring his terribleness.

We are literally talking about a person who openly admits that voting for Trump was a stupid decision. If you're willing to write even those people as hardcore Trump cultists who aren't worth reaching out to, then what's even the point of having political campaigns?

The world is not divided into "Mindless Trump Zombies" and "Democrats". Not everyone who voted for Trump is a lost cause, no matter how cathartic it might be to think that way.

edited 15th May '18 12:08:39 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242394: May 15th 2018 at 12:10:02 PM

Well, Obama was elected and Trump was elected.

Unless we believe in literally no overlap, someone must have switched.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#242395: May 15th 2018 at 12:12:34 PM

The Obama-to-Trump voters are the ones who can flip, and they happen to be concentrated in the States that put Trump over the top.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242396: May 15th 2018 at 12:15:12 PM

[up][up][up]Yes a single person thinks that they made a mistake voting for Trump. This in no way contradicts my point, most Trump supporters are not going to vote for a Democrat. For the simple fact that the reason they supported Trump is because their values are antithetical to supporting a Democrat, hence why I think the most that they can do as a rule is to vote against Trump.

If you think that we cannot win unless we court Trump supporters you clearly have no understanding how electoral politics works, the Democrats will win by courting independents and raising base turnout. And that is what we should focus on, convincing Trump supporters to stay home should be secondary to that.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RabidTanker God-Mayor of Sim-Kind Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
#242397: May 15th 2018 at 12:16:13 PM

Wow, I never figured that America's politics would outdo Star Wars when it comes to the black & white worldview.

Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242398: May 15th 2018 at 12:19:31 PM

[up]It's not a "black and white worldview" it's basic knowledge of what makes someone a Trump supporter, by definition they're his base and thus most of them are not going to vote against him. The most they can do is not vote for him.

But I guess pithy non-arguments are fine too.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#242399: May 15th 2018 at 12:22:13 PM

Trump enjoys a pretty comfortable 40% support in national polling. By those measures, we can estimate that 30-40 percent of the populace would express support for a literal pile of human feces with an "R" next to its name. That leaves a fair number of people who are at least notionally in the "can be persuaded" camp.

edited 15th May '18 12:22:34 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RabidTanker God-Mayor of Sim-Kind Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
#242400: May 15th 2018 at 12:25:19 PM

What I'm trying to say is that people (and their opinions) can change as passes. It could be the emergence of someone better than Trump, Trump being incompetent, people are getting tired of his catchphrase, his anti-immigration policies...

Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break

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