Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@LSBK: Fixed.
@Wisewillow: A student has a right not to be neglected. If others are being called on, they should be called upon as well. These days, according to the latest research on adult learning, lessons should be as interactive as possible, so participation should always be part of the grade, regardless of the topic.
As for monologing, see my comments re disrupting the classroom.
Regarding your classmate who didnt know how to ask constructive questions—I would have arranged for some light mentoring for that student, perhaps even paired him up with someone like yourself for a night, or with myself the instructor after class if that wasn't appropriate given the class structure. Ignoring him was inappropriate in my opinion.
"If a student decides to share opinions/make comments which are disrespectful of classmates, that’s a valid reason to not call on them again."
No. That is a valid reason to have the student removed from the class. There are no valid reasons for neglecting an attending student. In fact, at my place of employment, we are not allowed to.
@Silas W: And dont you start strawmanning me either. Hate speech is the same as making threats. Begin explusion proceedings.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.TBH Experience with my homeland has taught me the opposite is too optimistic too, you can't get social equality with just the state forcing people to accept it....
It needs to be approached from both angles at the same time..... otherwise you get what we have... The Japanese Constitution says that men and women are equal, and enforces equality between the sexes and the races.... But it is just a peice of paper, and has no bearing on how people really treat each other.
And to make things worse, since a legal document SAYS we are equal, no one wants to do any thing about actually fixing the problem, because the paper says its already fixed.
You need the social revolution to actualy go with the laws, and the laws to go with the social revolution, neither work without the other.
Uh? No, putting a law is not forcing people to accept it, you have to enforce it. If you just put the law and no one is enforcing it, then you arent doing anything.
The goverment have to do things as reeducating the population, doing its best efforts to solve case for case issues, etc.
edited 14th May '18 4:26:06 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryThe "simple" answer to all of this is, especially in primary/secondary education, is to not base class discussions in ways that can be twisted to discuss the merits of fascism and bigotry, and to explicitly not tolerate such in the classroom. In a college setting, students will generally be held much more accountable for their words and actions; but you can't throw out students in primary and secondary education.
It IS seen as enforced is the problem.
You can't have just legal changes without the social changes to go along with it, saying that people are equal and then forcing them to be doesn't make people actualy belive it.
I mean just look at the American South, where they were forced to accept the equality of black people by gunpoint, thats one hell of an enforcemt..... Yet they are still one of the single most racist parts of the country.
edited 14th May '18 4:27:45 PM by Imca
The issue with the South is that they were left alone, they were left free to become racist. The goverment tolerated Confedate nostalgia and depending of who was the president, it encouraged it.
Basically, they forced them to stop slavery, but they didnt force them to stop being bigoted.
edited 14th May '18 4:29:43 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
This. If you force anything for enough time, it become more socially tolerable.
So we have to force good things for once.
edited 14th May '18 4:32:48 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country![]()
![]()
The South wasn't exactly left alone. They were under martial law for several decades after the war, suffrage was codified into law literally at gunpoint. Of course, they fought back as much as they could and the North wasn't exactly a bastion of equal rights either. Even during the modern civil rights movement the federal government used the military to force Southern states into compliance.
No, it just goes ignored because the people that actually do the enforcement are recruited from the society that has not yet undergone change.
Its an issue that needs to be approached from both angles, if you just come from the lower levels retaliation is too easy, but if you just come from the top there is never a foundation built and it just crushes under itself.
I would really rather not see the mistakes of my homeland repeated, there is a reason I left and the inequality of society was one of the big ones.
@Fighteer: Sorry to ask, but is there any chance that Geneticly Viable Worker Ants will ever be unbaned as a topic it kind of really holds up discussion here because they were a key element to the rise of the alt-right, and there playbook is almost identical.
I could see having dedicated topics about it banned, but in the context of this thread it is kind of important to the modern Alt-Right. :/
![]()
Maybe, but they can get downplayed enought, so I am willing to try my best to do it.
![]()
![]()
As you said, Ending all Bigotry wasnt exactly in the goal-list of the north.
Why you would think that I would ignore social change from the lower levels? Me advocating a strong goverment control to, well, control bigotry and make sure that it gets as downplayed as much as possible is not at odds with supporting interal reforms from the people themselves.
Also, the irony of a Peruvian telling this to a Japanese. My country worship yours despite its issues. I know how weird that sounds but that is how bad we are.
edited 14th May '18 4:41:03 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryWell, with fascist students it's already the law that you can't wear a swastika in a public school. In a college you're talking a private organization which means it doesn't have to follow the governments rules necessarily.
But overall I think you can ban expressions of specific opinions without having to discriminate against students themselves. For example, a student can be allowed to be a fascist, just not allowed to spread fascism.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
![]()
Because I have seen way too many people that think you can just pass a law that offers protection or equality and call it a day.
It just flat out doesn't work unless you put forth the massive effort required to convince people of that, and worse by having the law around it becomes harder to convince people of that because they think it is already solved.
"We don't need feminism/civil rights movments any more because they are already equal, see the law"
edited 14th May '18 4:42:59 PM by Imca
I always try to take an indifferent viewpoint on such matters, only to be reminded that things are black and white again. I assume this site is adamantly pro-Hillary, correct? That any concerns about her are exaggerated and people overestimate her cons? Personally, I too would have taken a Hillary presidency, treating it like a vaccine; with whatever negatives it represents, better get it out of the way early. Certainly better than catching the Trump flu.
ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.@Kazuya Prota: Well, you have to keep in mind that there was a lot of "doing the best they can" there. The fact of the matter is the North had no means of forcing the South to not be racist. You only have so many bullets and the racists do fight back. Also, the US needed to pacify the south or the nation would have de-stabilized.
The US did try pretty hard to reduce racism in the south, and in truth there actually were pretty respectable successes. But there was a logistical limit to how much racism could have been reduced.
Leviticus 19:34Too good that I dont do that. I know that sadly, officers are humans too and how bad is that.
Are you saying that you shouldnt put social laws unless people is "ready" for them?
Because I am not saying that because you put social laws, then you should erradicate activism
![]()
Well, I am unironical Hillary shill. I dont considerate her neither a vaccun or a cure, I just saw her as someone who could try to kept racism in check and follow Obama steps.
edited 14th May '18 4:49:58 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryI am saying that the laws need to be passed while a social shift is already under way, so that the momentum carries through.
You really don't want to crush the momentum before it ever gets off the ground, or you get stuck with 7 going on 8 decades of treating people like shite all while saying it is not really a problem because the law says its not a problem.
Not that they shouldn't be made, but that putting them in place without a wave of public support just kills civil rights for decades as people use it as an excuse to shut down any movment that starts.
edited 14th May '18 4:51:01 PM by Imca
That is the same as saying "when they are ready"
Because a goverment cant try to solve social issues and convince the population?
I know that people can be shitty, I am a Latin American, we have the sexism and homophobia of Japan but without the shiny cities and nice tech. That dont means that goverment cant try its best to force them to become less awful.
edited 14th May '18 4:55:34 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country@Raining Metal: I think you do have a point in that people here are a bit too quick to gloss over what about Clinton cost her the election, when it helps to understand what went wrong and how it can be fixed in time for the next election.
Life is unfair...

Personally, I see no problem with telling an student to keep their political and religious beliefs to themselves when the class is about something completely unrelated.
Why? Because there's only so much time in a class and the more time someone spends talking about something unrelated, the more likely someone is going to be distracted by it.
Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break