TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlityrosThePhilosopher from Over There Since: Jan, 2018
#242176: May 14th 2018 at 1:17:21 PM

[up][up][up][up] Thank you for your reply ironballs16.

I think that difference boils down to an unfortunately simple equation - nobody enjoys being told "You're wrong!" and/or "You're X-phobic!" The SJW crowd - as in the folks on Tumblr that almost drove one person to suicide…
[…]
By contrast, the neo-Nazi/fascist crowd have a horrible mentality, but they don't demand that others share in it.
I admit that my knowledge of this horrible crowd is anecdotal, so I assume I just happen to often find the kind that calls me a Communist, a Nazi (which is a Leftie thing, as anyone knows it all), a racist (for hating White people and committing genocide against them), and of course a homophobe and an anti-semite for my critique of Mr Milo Ioannou… Yannio… youknow…poulos.

edited 14th May '18 1:28:28 PM by AlityrosThePhilosopher

Just as my freedom ends where yours begins my tolerance of you ends where your intolerance toward me begins. As told by an old friend
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#242177: May 14th 2018 at 1:22:39 PM

"In Breaking News: Supreme Court rules 6-3 that Lawyers and Attorneys can not over ride their client's wishes, specifically in Criminal Cases. Robert Mc Coy, a person accused of murdering his family, told his Lawyer, Larry English, that he wanted to plead Not Guilty to the charges, but his Lawyer, questioning his client's mental health, submitted a Guilty Plea (sort of; the Lawyer was arguing that Mc Coy didn't intend for murder and thus the charge shouldn't have been murder), and Mc Coy has been fighting it up to this day. Interestingly enough, the 3 Justices that went against the ruling where the most Conservative members (Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch), who didn't really rule against the decision, but ruled that since the Guilty Plea wasn't a full confession of Guilt, they didn't have the right to rule on the case."

I'm honestly surprised that three justices thought it was a good idea to permit legal counsel to do something like that. Can you imagine the chaos if lawyers were given license to sabotage the defense of any client they didn't like? Our entire legal tradition would be in jeopardy.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#242178: May 14th 2018 at 1:24:11 PM

[up][up][up] I was referring to ideologies, not people, but yeah that's more likely for individuals. Probably.

edited 14th May '18 1:24:22 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#242179: May 14th 2018 at 1:24:25 PM

3 more Supreme Court related things today: Supreme Court rules unanimously in favor of a person's right to privacy in a Rental Car. Terrence Byrd had heroin and illegal body armor in his Girlfriend's rental car, and when police arrested him, they told him that since he wasn't on the rental agreement they didn't need a warrant to search his car. The court ruled unanimously that Byrd indeed had a right to privacy in the vehicle and that the search was illegally conducted.

The Supreme Court rejected taking a case over the 'Spoofing' Laws in the Dodd-Frank Act. Michael Coscia, the former principal of Panther Energy Trading, was found guilty of Spoofing (the act of placing orders on items with the intent of raising their market value) in 2015. Coscia argued that the law was too vague and needed to be ruled unconstitutional. The Federal Appeals Court in Illinois ruled that the Law was not vague and that Coscia clearly violated the law.

Lastly, the Supreme Court rejected taking a case over the 'Right to Sell Guns', leaving in place a California Federal Courts' ruling that there is no right to sell guns. John Teixeira and his associates tried to open a Gun Store in California too close to a residential area, and thus their permit was denied. Teixeira and his associates argued that they had a right to open the shop due to the Second Amendment, but the California Courts had found there is no protection for Gun Sellers under the Second Amendment.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#242180: May 14th 2018 at 1:26:17 PM

[up][up][up]

As mentioned, though, their reasoning was not that it was A-OK, but that the Supreme Court simply didn't have legal grounds to rule on the situation. Same outcome, but entirely different mentalities at play.

[up]

And yeah, that kinda makes sense - the 2nd Amendment refers to ownership of firearms, not sale of them.

edited 14th May '18 1:27:47 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242181: May 14th 2018 at 1:45:32 PM

Sounds weirdly like the pot debate.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#242182: May 14th 2018 at 1:46:31 PM

I mean, if you want to be cynical, lawyers being able to override the wishes of their clients is a dream if you exchange 'client' with a more specific 'low income, public defender Poc'

"You can reply to this Message!"
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242183: May 14th 2018 at 2:02:25 PM

Back on the left & right extremists thing, I always imagine SJWs being like Goddamned Bats; they can be quite annoying, sure, but they're easy to deal with, and they aren't of particular concern and danger. They can be given an ignore flag or something. The alt-right, meanwhile, are more like Demonic Spiders for obvious reasons. That should result in an immediate ban-hammer.

It probably exacerbates matters that the left is a house divided while the right is incredibly homogeneous and willing to accept anyone who has even a remotely conservative viewpoint on most subject matters. Even if that kind of person would be considered a traitor decades ago. Even if that kind of person would shoot up one's own countrymen just to prove a point. That's why the alt-right is far more dangerous; they can agree with each other more easily. You don't see moderate conservatives condemning their extremist counterparts nearly as much, if they still exist.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#242184: May 14th 2018 at 2:15:14 PM

[up] Yup, that's why you had that rally last year, a wonderful combination of the forces of neo-confederates, nazis and regular alt-right members. Still, it's not like the left is that divided either, you had two of the biggest protests in America's history under Trump.

Life is unfair...
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242185: May 14th 2018 at 2:20:04 PM

Only after the worst possible outcome occurred. Then it became clear that they should co-operate rather than compete. You've seen how the democrats were torn between Bernie "Too Good To Be True And Hiding Secrets" Sanders and Hillary "Culture-Blind, Genre-Blind, but Experienced" Clinton. Meanwhile, Trump won by a landslide in the republican competition due to none of the other candidates being worth a damn through Large Ham antics alone.

Back on SJWs; just one Moral Guardian to another. But one with a more sympathetic reason, surely. Don't Shoot the Message, after all. You go too far to spite them and you become the reason they existed in the first place.

edited 14th May '18 2:20:29 PM by RainingMetal

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242186: May 14th 2018 at 2:39:27 PM

Anytime that people in this thread wanted to stop talking about "SJW" would be great. Because simply by discussing the existence of fandom cranks and the like in a US Politics thread you give credence to the right's notion that those people are at all relevant to a discussion of American politics.

You've seen how the democrats were torn between Bernie "Too Good To Be True And Hiding Secrets" Sanders and Hillary "Culture-Blind, Genre-Blind, but Experienced" Clinton.

You know, this right here is essentially both siderism, only of Clinton and Sanders rather than Clinton and Trump. Clinton was not culture blind, and since this is the real world, literally could not be genre blind. It's a nonsense criticism. There was also nothing "too good to be true" about Sanders because even without the stuff we've dug up on him since, his general tone deafness on anything other than class was apparent from the start.

Dont straw man me. Read my post—that is not what I said. An instructor has to conform to a professional standard of ethics—and that mean treating all student exactly the same, their political beliefs outside the classroom never factor into it. If they are disruptive, there is a disciplinary process in place. Otherwise you teach using interactive instructional methods. This is essential to promote good citizenship in a democracy.

...You say while strawmanning me. Please direct to the place where I said I would punish students for what they said outside of class. I'll wait. Oh right, I didn't say that.

Once a student expresses fascist beliefs in class I will not give them an opportunity to do it again. My class is not a platform for them to abuse others, and there is no "right" to participate.

Classrooms contain more than the instructor and the fascist. They contain multiple other students who do not need to have their educational experience disrupted by someone who wishes to use the class as a platform for racism, sexism, or homophobia. They matter too, and my priority is the creation of a safe environment for them to learn in.

But sure, by defending my minority students from the abuses of white supremacists and their ilk I'm failing to conform to professional ethics. Sounds legit.

edited 14th May '18 2:41:54 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#242187: May 14th 2018 at 2:51:28 PM

[up]I imagine the "too good to be true" part is about his policy proposals and not his general disposition.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242188: May 14th 2018 at 2:57:09 PM

Even his policy proposals are only going to fall under that descriptor for a certain section of people, because they were mostly aimed at class issues of one sort or another.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242189: May 14th 2018 at 3:12:41 PM

@Ambar: You have stated multiple times that you would deliberately neglect a student for holding fascist views. That's blatently discriminatory, in violation of professional ethics, and probably illegal (not to mention feeding right in to their "persecution" narrative).

As I said, if the student is disruptive, there is a disciplinary process in place. In all schools that I am aware of, "disruptive" is defined in a student code of conduct in a manner that is independent of political views. If someone is making threats, you call campus police. Was all this not explained to you where you work?

edited 14th May '18 3:58:53 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242190: May 14th 2018 at 3:14:18 PM

[up]It's a bit weird that you used the word "merely" there, not gonna lie. It lessens whatever point you may have.

edited 14th May '18 3:14:37 PM by LSBK

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#242191: May 14th 2018 at 3:18:21 PM

[up][up]A student doesn’t have a “right” to be called on. If class participation is part of the grade, that’s one thing. But if a student is merely seeking to share their opinion, it’s to the teacher’s discretion whether that’s gonna happen or not. Refusing to let them monologue is not “neglecting” them, nor would any administration order you to let a student monologue at their leisure. (I taught high school English full time for three years, by the way.)

Somewhat relevant case in point: I am a law student. During my first year, I tended to have a lot of questions in class, but I only raised my hand to ask them if I thought it was a question that was relevant to what the professor was talking about, was a question I thought other people probably had, and wasn’t going to require making some sort of lengthy hypothetical that would derail the current topic.

So even though I asked two or three questions per class sometimes, the professor almost always thought it was a good question and decided to answer it. If I raised my hand, I was almost always called on unless we were in a hurry.

By contrast, one of my classmates tended to ask questions that were either about his opinion on existing law (“this precedent doesn’t make sense/this is dumb/why don’t they do this instead”), or which required lengthy off topic hypotheticals. And he occasionally asked a decent question. After the first few weeks, the professors usually ignored him when he raised his hand, or refused to answer his question because it was too long/unrelated.

If a student decides to share opinions/make comments which are disrespectful of classmates, that’s a valid reason to not call on them again. Not just for political issues, but in general. I don’t mean “I disagree with Bob,” I mean “Bob’s point is stupid because” or “see Bob, this why liberals/conservatives are stupid.” Sharing fascist views falls under that umbrella.

edited 14th May '18 3:22:51 PM by wisewillow

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#242192: May 14th 2018 at 3:24:42 PM

I've had to distance myself from the gamer community and shed that identity more and more thanks to many cases where they revealed their toxic sides, from Gamergate to the latest petty battle about Overwatch.

Most recent case? Lauren Hissrich is in charge of the Netflix adaptation of The Witcher books. She's proven herself to be dedicated and well-versed in the books, plus aiming to showcase Polish and Slavic culture in the show. She recently released a photo of the writing team, including a ton of staff from Daredevil. Two of the writers are black. Their ethnicity has nothing to do with the show's content or performance. Plus, looking at how awesome Daredevil is, they're gonna write this show great in my opinion.

But the Witcher subreddit blew up screaming that the Witcher was going be filled with PC bullshit, all the characters would be minorities, that feminists were going to make Geralt weak in a fight, bla bla bullshit.

Nevermind the Witcher is not about a white male protagonist but a mutant facing terrible racism every day while trying to save people's lives. Never mind he has zero problems with women in masculine roles - hell, his lover and adopted daughter are by far two of the most independent and powerful characters in the Witcher universe.

Anyway, Hissrich made a Twitter post solemnly and politely calling out Reddit for the response. Cue the post sitting with little points or comments, and that commented being extremely defensive aside from some sane people.

Jesus Christ.

edited 14th May '18 3:25:35 PM by TheWildWestPyro

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242193: May 14th 2018 at 3:32:08 PM

[up] If said mutant protagonist is a white male, what do you expect?

Also, Reddit sexist love badass woman, they just hate when they dare to act in any way that they dont like

edited 14th May '18 3:32:54 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#242194: May 14th 2018 at 3:34:06 PM

[up]

Never mind he's clearly not human, what with the enhanced senses, immortality, magic, cat eyes, slowed heartbeat, etc, etc.

They latch onto him as an Author Avatar and when anyone suggests his views might not reflect theirs they throw a hissy fit.

The worst ones bitch about Cirilla Elena de Fiona Rhiannon, Geralt's adoptive daughter, being a mary sue, never mind the true extent of her godlike powers are still out of her control and she's still got much to learn as a witcherress. There are others who complain about Geralt not being able to have sex with her, with the justification being "she's 19 and hot and your adopted daughter so she's not related." Ignoring that Geralt is actually asked this by the Crones (three Humanoid Abomination evil witches) and looks like he's going to vomit in rage when they goad him that he's attracted to Ciri, and always treats Ciri in an extremely fatherly way.

edited 14th May '18 3:38:03 PM by TheWildWestPyro

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242195: May 14th 2018 at 3:35:43 PM

[up] If he looks like a white human male. Then racists will accept that, they are very tolerant.

That is why most of us here are not exactly fond of the whole Fantastic Racism trope.

Why do you thinks that there so many Neo Nazis that identify with the Space Marines from Warhammer 40000 AKA. Guys literally engineered on steroids

Seriously, deep racists are more likely to side with Human Aliens as long they look white than to with non-whites,

edited 14th May '18 3:40:30 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242196: May 14th 2018 at 3:41:12 PM

You have stated multiple times that you would deliberately neglect a student merely for holding fascist views.

I get it now, you see protecting other students from hate speech as a form of neglect aimed at the student throwing out hate speech, yeah no, that’s not how it works, it’s not neglect to not help an abuser abuse people.

[up]X4 I’d suggest that in that instance the problem might not be gamers so much as it might be reddit.

edited 14th May '18 3:42:56 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#242197: May 14th 2018 at 3:41:27 PM

Meanwhile, on the topic of US Politics.

Trump complains about the Mueller probe at least 20 times a day.

That's quite impressive. I don't think the guy had the energy or the attention span to devote to that kind of thing, but it does prove just how much the investigation is getting to him.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#242198: May 14th 2018 at 3:42:01 PM

[up][up]

Agreed. Place is largely reprehensible and hidebound.

edited 14th May '18 3:42:10 PM by TheWildWestPyro

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242199: May 14th 2018 at 3:45:12 PM

Reddit by and large has the same problem that most of the uncivilised internet has, that uncivilised places are crazy free for alls, the lack of full moderator tools for the subs that do want to civilised themselves doesn’t help.

There’s a reason I stuck to zetaboard forums for a long time before coming here, the ability to IP ban is kinda a must if one wants an area of the internet to be in any way civilised.

edited 14th May '18 3:45:38 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#242200: May 14th 2018 at 3:58:06 PM

Trump gets paranoid about people in the White House leaking info, claims he'll "find out who they are!"

But I thought he hires only the best people?

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.

Total posts: 417,856
Top