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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#242151: May 14th 2018 at 10:20:07 AM

[up][up] The ruling on that case may have some interesting effects on states rights, since they said the law against betting was an outright violation of the anitcomandeering doctrine.

edited 14th May '18 10:21:57 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#242152: May 14th 2018 at 10:21:53 AM

this is no surprise.

TRUMP UNIVERSITY 2.0 A GO? WE CAN ONLY HOPE!

https://www.axios.com/betsy-devos-education-department-fraud-for-profits-colleges--df336bd2-89be-471f-84fd-6f37aad1b943.html

edited 14th May '18 10:26:42 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#242153: May 14th 2018 at 10:23:41 AM

Man, I have to admit that I almost find Devos and Pruitt interesting in how openly corrupt they are.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#242154: May 14th 2018 at 10:43:44 AM

I've found Pruitt especially fascinating for that reason


https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/05/14/day-480/

Day 480: A fucked-up feedback loop.

1/ Trump and Sean Hannity often speak by phone several times a day, and the two speak most weeknights after Hannity's show on Fox News is over. Current and former White House officials say the conversations help Trump "decompress" at the end of the day since "He doesn't live with his wife." One former White House official called the talks with Hannity "a fucked-up feedback loop" that puts Trump "in a weird headspace." Hannity is one of a few dozen callers who have been cleared to use Trump's official White House phone line. (New York Magazine)

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/sean-hannity-donald-trump-late-night-calls.html

2/ The White House declined to apologize for Kelly Sadler's "joke" that John Mc Cain's opinion "doesn't matter, because he's dying anyway." Instead, Sarah Huckabee Sanders said it was "selfish" for her staff to use the "inappropriate" comment as justification for leaking it to the press. "I am sure this conversation is going to leak, too. And that's just disgusting." (ABC News / New York Times / Axios)

https://www.axios.com/white-house-sarah-sanders-john-mccain-kelly-sadler-8a4e33f7-c2bd-4cc6-aebd-57594d7ab4f4.html

3/ A Trump administration official proposed collecting and analyzing the communications of White House staff in order to to identify leakers last year. Ezra Cohen-Watnick wanted to implement the "insider threat" detection program in order to find leakers or those disloyal to Trump. Cohen-Watnick worked as the senior director for intelligence on the National Security Council at the time. One current White House official said, "To cover my tracks [when leaking], I usually pay attention to other staffers' idioms and use that in my background quotes. That throws the scent off me." (Daily Beast / Axios)

https://www.axios.com/trump-white-house-leakers-leak-about-leaking-dae05b8e-e792-41a7-bb74-c2756b542cd0.html

4/ A former senior Trump campaign and transition aide is helping a Russian oligarch's company shed US sanctions. Bryan Lanza is lobbying on behalf of the chairman of EN+ Group, an energy and aluminum firm controlled by Oleg Deripaska, who was the target of US sanctions imposed last month. The company wants to reduce Deripaska's ownership in the company enough to be freed from US sanctions. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/12/politics/washington-lobbying-trump-era/index.html

5/ Betsy De Vos scaled back the team at the Education Department investigating for-profit colleges accused of widespread fraud. The rollback "effectively killed investigations" into for-profit colleges where De Vos' top hires previously worked. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/education-department-for-profit-colleges.html

Notables. In December 2016, members of the Trump transition team met with a Qatari diplomat who was recently accused of attempting to bribe Trump officials in a lawsuit. Michael Avenatti shared photos of Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn meeting with a person who appears to be Ahmed Al-Rumaihi, the man in charge of a division of Qatar's sovereign wealth fund. The meeting was previously unreported. Rapper and actor Ice Cube, along with his business partner Jeff Kwatinetz, recently filed a $1.2 billion lawsuit alleging that Al-Rumaihi and other Qatari officials tried to buy access to people connected to Trump. (Mother Jones)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/05/qatari-investor-accused-in-bribery-plot-appears-with-michael-cohen-in-picture-posted-by-stormy-daniels-lawyer/

National security adviser John Bolton doubled down on Trump's threat that European countries could be sanctioned by the U.S. if they continue to be involved with Iran. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/13/bolton-pompeo-trump-iran-sanctions-584206

Trump instructed the Commerce Department to help ZTE – the world's fourth-largest maker of cellphones – get "back into business" after the company for violated U.S. sanctions against North Korea and Iran. Trump said he was working with President Xi to end a ban on export privileges, because "too many jobs in China lost." (NPR)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/610891747/president-trump-puts-america-first-on-hold-to-save-chinese-jobs

edited 14th May '18 10:49:40 AM by sgamer82

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242155: May 14th 2018 at 11:23:33 AM

@Ambar: "They have a right to an education, and they can get one by sitting there and shutting up and taking notes."

No, we cant. That's not how we teach people anymore. Passive models of education are a good way of perpetuating authoritariansm, not undermining it.

As for the whole SJW thing—if the question was "is it the same thing when right wingers vs. left wingers do it" that depends on what you mean by "the same thing". Are left wing extremists as dangerous as right wing ones right now? No—the Left is still recovering from 40+ years of disenfranchisement and conservative propaganda that the Democratic Party accepted whole.

Are they equivalent on an ethical basis? The exact same action, if enacted, is the exact same action... regardless of the political views of the person doing it. If someone uses intimidation tactics to shut down someone expressing an opinion they do not like, then they are, and it wouldnt matter which side of the political spectrum they are on.

Whether or not a roughly equal percentage of people on both sides engage in this tactic, I dont know. I would say the right wingers are getting away with it more often, mostly due to who is in the White House right now.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242156: May 14th 2018 at 11:30:50 AM

No, we cant. That's not how we teach people anymore. Passive models of education are a good way of perpetuating authoritariansm, not undermining it.

Once again, the "right" of a fascist to share his drivel is being placed as more important that the safety of the other students in the class. Colour me shocked.

The purpose is not to educate the Nazi, the purpose is to safeguard the other students. Participation is a privilege, not a right, and he can have it back when he proves he's not going to be an ass.

The job of an educator is to make sure everyone in class gets the best possible education that they can. And sometimes that requires silencing one abusive element for the benefit of everyone else.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#242157: May 14th 2018 at 11:32:51 AM

Wouldn't the logical conclusion to that just not to let said elements in the school in the first place? I'm not saying that as slippery slope argument, genuinely curious about thoughts on the merits/practicality of something like that. Well, once you establish who they are.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242158: May 14th 2018 at 11:34:47 AM

Theoretically a student could be expelled for being a fascist, especially at the university level where they're burning their own money to be there. In practice it never happens unless they do something extremely over the top, and of course, part of my job is making sure the other students never have to be experience something extremely over the top. Which is why I have moderator authority over online discussions in online courses for one thing.

If every time you called on a student, they started singing pop songs, you'd eventually stop calling on them. When the student is spewing racist BS they have to be treated the same way.

edited 14th May '18 11:44:04 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242159: May 14th 2018 at 11:45:51 AM

Are they equivalent on an ethical basis? The exact same action, if enacted, is the exact same action...

So they’re not morally equivalent, as they’ve very much not carried out the same actions. The alt-right haven’t just harassed people via twitter, they’ve also carried out domestic terrorist attacks and got a neo-fascist elected to the presidency.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#242160: May 14th 2018 at 11:47:26 AM

@ZTE: How much money do you think that company is pouring into Trump's businesses in order to get him to lift those sanctions?

edited 14th May '18 11:47:34 AM by danime91

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#242161: May 14th 2018 at 11:49:40 AM

There are left-wing radicals who are equivalent to the right-wing neo-Nazis. TERFs come to mind - they hate anyone who wasn't born with female genitalia.

Even then, though, they're only comparable to a point. They're very small in number, despised by their fellow leftists, and very rarely inclined towards violence.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242162: May 14th 2018 at 11:53:13 AM

Which is the point. There is no comparable movement on the left to the alt-right. Every attempt to point to "SJWs" or what have you just winds up being a dodge.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242163: May 14th 2018 at 12:20:57 PM

If a group is rarely inclined to violence that it is by definition not equivalent to neo-Nazis.

TER Fs are scum and fall well below the line of “reasonable or in any way someone that shodulshould be allowed near at risk people”, but they’ve still not carried out multiple acts fo domestic terrorism.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242164: May 14th 2018 at 12:21:48 PM

@Ambar: "Once again, the "right" of a fascist to share his drivel is being placed as more important that the safety of the other students in the class."

Dont straw man me. Read my post—that is not what I said. An instructor has to conform to a professional standard of ethics—and that mean treating all student exactly the same, their political beliefs outside the classroom never factor into it. If they are disruptive, there is a disciplinary process in place. Otherwise you teach using interactive instructional methods. This is essential to promote good citizenship in a democracy.

@LSBK: "Wouldn't the logical conclusion to that just not to let said elements in the school in the first place?"

It would be highly illegal to discriminate against students on the basis of their political beliefs. And you can bet that would just feed into their narrative.

Trust me, I have many years of experience as a college level instructor, and I can tell you from personal experience that maintaining discipline in the classroom isnt hard, if the instructor has the balls to enforce his/her own discussion rules, which should have been spelled out in the syllabus. Now, some instructors can be intimidated by pushy/aggressive students, but that's a problem with the instructor. Remember that one of the things we are supposed to do as professionals is model appropriate behavior—and that includes how to handle wing-nuts.

@Silas W: Yes, good point. More extreme actions are not equivalent at all, and we have to call people out when the pretend as if they are.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#242165: May 14th 2018 at 12:22:09 PM

Once again, the "right" of a fascist to share his drivel is being placed as more important that the safety of the other students in the class. Colour me shocked.

Except learning by rote discourages critical thinking, which tends to work the best in combating such extremist notions. Ergo, discouraging critical thinking inadvertently encourages Hive Mind mentalities.

Edit: I kinda came into that conversation blind - and yeah, there's a difference between stifling racist statements and just telling them "sit down and shut up."

edited 14th May '18 12:27:37 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AlityrosThePhilosopher from Over There Since: Jan, 2018
#242166: May 14th 2018 at 12:24:29 PM

Both sides are not the same.
Some countries, none of them in the OECD at present time, have authoritarian Left Wing governments, while the Alt-Right has presence in government in some OECD countries and is virulently active in all of them, with some Far-Left outfits (but those don’t usually get the SJW treatment) in some European parliaments and municipalities but there you have it.
[Edit: if there’s one similar trait in both Alt-Right and Far-Left movmements in demcoracies is that both sides have the same admiration for Mr Putin and have the Kremlin lend them support as it finds suitable.]

It seems to me many of the people voicing complaints about SJW ruining the country aren’t all that fond of the Alt-Right, whom they often see as Magnificent Bastards, harmful yet still preferable in their mind, to some Abominable Snowflakes.
Some conservative commentator whose name I forget evolved that much during 2016 when, several months after first equating Mr Trump with Hitler (thou hast said it was my reflexive thought), he then came out in support of him saying come November it’s Alien vs Predator time and he’s with Predator, never once saying he was mistaken equating him with Hitler earlier that very year.

edited 14th May '18 12:33:14 PM by AlityrosThePhilosopher

Just as my freedom ends where yours begins my tolerance of you ends where your intolerance toward me begins. As told by an old friend
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#242167: May 14th 2018 at 12:28:22 PM

Could one argue that the left has done a better job of controlling its idiots?

Or that there's less danger from them, because (deep) beneath all the wacky rhetoric there's a fundamentally decent goal?

Or is it because there's less... precedent for them to follow?

edited 14th May '18 12:29:39 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#242168: May 14th 2018 at 12:38:09 PM

[up] I'd argue it's been because of the history of repressing Left-Wing Ideology in the US since the '40's, while allowing Right-Wing Ideology to fester until this point.

In Breaking News: Supreme Court rules 6-3 that Lawyers and Attorneys can not over ride their client's wishes, specifically in Criminal Cases. Robert McCoy, a person accused of murdering his family, told his Lawyer, Larry English, that he wanted to plead Not Guilty to the charges, but his Lawyer, questioning his client's mental health, submitted a Guilty Plea (sort of; the Lawyer was arguing that McCoy didn't intend for murder and thus the charge shouldn't have been murder), and McCoy has been fighting it up to this day. Interestingly enough, the 3 Justices that went against the ruling where the most Conservative members (Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch), who didn't really rule against the decision, but ruled that since the Guilty Plea wasn't a full confession of Guilt, they didn't have the right to rule on the case.

edited 14th May '18 12:40:13 PM by DingoWalley1

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#242169: May 14th 2018 at 12:39:15 PM

First of all there ...isn’t less precedent.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#242170: May 14th 2018 at 12:42:16 PM

At least in America, there seems to be less precedent for left-wing whackjobs gaining power and breaking shit.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242171: May 14th 2018 at 12:46:31 PM

Could one argue that the left has done a better job of controlling its idiots?

Or that there's less danger from them, because (deep) beneath all the wacky rhetoric there's a fundamentally decent goal?

Or is it because there's less... precedent for them to follow?

I would strongly argue against the idea that they're secretly decent, TERFS are just as hateful as any more mundane transphobe. They're just less powerful.

And it's less that there's less precedent as much as it's that the state has been very competent at suppressing radical leftism, while sadly not doing the same for the right.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#242172: May 14th 2018 at 12:49:53 PM

It seems to me many of the people voicing complaints about SJW ruining the country aren’t all that fond of the Alt-Right, whom they often see as Magnificent Bastards, harmful yet still preferable in their mind, to some Abominable Snowflakes.

I think that difference boils down to an unfortunately simple equation - nobody enjoys being told "You're wrong!" and/or "You're X-phobic!" The SJW crowd - as in the folks on Tumblr that almost drove one person to suicide because of the backlash over her damned fan-art of Steven Universe - can wind up doing a lot of damage to their own cause for just that reason, whereas striking the "You're misguided about X topic, and here's why" tone tends to go better.

By contrast, the neo-Nazi/fascist crowd have a horrible mentality, but they don't demand that others share in it. Instead, they take advantage of that flaw in human thinking to cite BS statistics that reinforce their world-view, hence why they call it "red-pill" - the idea that you came of your own volition and "saw the truth", as it were.

edited 14th May '18 12:53:33 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#242173: May 14th 2018 at 12:56:39 PM

[up][up] I didn't say, or at least didn't mean to say, that deep down they're decent people, but rather at its ultimate root whatever idea is being perverted is supposed to be/started out as something good (IE feminism) before being twisted into whatever it's presenting as (IE TERF).

[down] That too.

edited 14th May '18 1:08:23 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242174: May 14th 2018 at 1:05:49 PM

I would say rather that the right wing versions are being enabled by the current US administration, while the left wingers who act this way are shut down much more quickly.

[nja]by Fourth Spartan.

edited 14th May '18 1:07:17 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#242175: May 14th 2018 at 1:10:44 PM

That assumes that they started out as feminists and came to hating trans people later, I suspect that plenty started out hating trans people and found feminism to be a handy excuse.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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