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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#242101: May 14th 2018 at 8:12:33 AM

[up][up]It’s worth calling out authoritarianism in all its forms. Relative privation is dangerous because it implies you should only care about the most severe form of a given issue.

Of course, it’s hard to know what was actually being called out. If that person was just talking out their ass about authoritarianism they can be rightfully dismissed.

edited 14th May '18 8:13:21 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242102: May 14th 2018 at 8:18:53 AM

[up][up][awesome], well said. "SJW" is a nonsense term used to demonize anyone who is even slightly left or in support of social justice and is not a real phenomenon that anyone should worry about.

The fact that legitimate "SJW's" exist is simply a reflection of the fact that when you have younger progressives some of them in their youth and inexperience will take things too far, that's unfortunate but doesn't justify the conservative hand-wringing that usually accompanies the issue.

edited 14th May '18 8:19:21 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242103: May 14th 2018 at 8:20:44 AM

[up][up] A Tumblr crazy fan isn't supporting a dictatorship, guys like Stalinists and Neo Nazis are.

Authoritarianism, to me (unless is on the "Political spectrum memes"), is explicitly using violence against others.

Watch me destroying my country
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#242104: May 14th 2018 at 8:22:07 AM

The so-called SJ Ws? The kind of people who are the reason we've got a Fan Dumb page, a Die for Our Ship page, a Ship-to-Ship Combat page, every page remotely linked to the tendency of fans to get too emotionally invested in fiction to an unhealthy degree?

When it comes to US politics...these people are not the problem. The problem we're currently facing, the problem we've been facing for generations are the kind of people who use "SJW" as a slur.

edited 14th May '18 8:22:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242105: May 14th 2018 at 8:22:19 AM

A Tumblr crazy fan isn't supporting a dictatorship, guys like Stalinists and Neo Nazis are. Authoritarianism, to me (unless is on the "Political spectrum memes"), is explicitly using violence against others.
I think that's a rather reductionist view of authoritarianism, not to mention that people can hide their intentions. So it's more than possible for someone to be authoritarian but smart enough to realize that advocating for violence either isn't viable or will result in them losing prestige in whatever community they inhabit.

Also Tumblr is a big platform, why are you assuming they can't be Neo-Nazis or Stalinists?

edited 14th May '18 8:23:21 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242106: May 14th 2018 at 8:23:28 AM

Point is. Crazy Tumblr fans don't deserve be called "authoritian" as if they were Stalinists, especially in a world with Trump

[up] The Anarchist girl called someone who erased all the Anti Semitic posts of one of his fans a "Authoritarian Leftist".

Apparently, anti semitism is Leftist as long you are doing it for the sake of the glorious REVOLUTION against the [[strikes: jewish]] Elites

edited 14th May '18 8:25:56 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#242107: May 14th 2018 at 8:25:32 AM

Isn’t that the same as saying we shouldn’t call out dogwhistles, because open racism exists?

Once you start making it into degrees you start implying that we shouldn’t care about stuff just because there’s something worse. Authoritarianism is bad in all its forms.

edited 14th May '18 8:25:56 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#242108: May 14th 2018 at 8:25:33 AM

Tumblr is full of Neo-Nazis and Stalinists and Russian agitprop instigators.

Have you ever actually used the site?

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#242109: May 14th 2018 at 8:27:14 AM

[up] As if I needed more reasons to avoid tumblr.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242110: May 14th 2018 at 8:27:37 AM

[up][up] I do, I have see Neo Nazi Otaku pages a lot. I avoid them and go for the pages where they aren't.

The thing is, the person that said Anarchist girl was acussing of being a Authoritarian Leftist

....was just a cosplayer who banned and erased the commentaries of a fan that did insult her Jewish boyfriend from Israel

[up] No place is perfect.

edited 14th May '18 8:28:29 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242111: May 14th 2018 at 8:27:41 AM

What some idiot somewhere says in a fandom argument is relevant to society at large only if it is a) representative of a societal trend or b) there is a major subgroup in society prepared to make it relevant to the rest of the world, damn the consequences.

Racism and sexism on the parts of fandoms are therefore relevant because they are representative of racism and sexism in the rest of society, and because there are societal groups—ie most of the alt-right—prepared to use that fandom problem to recruit.

Conversely, there is no Internet Gay Army recruiting from the Het Is Ew girls and they do not represent a sudden societal shift against straight people. Those fandom cranks remain fandom cranks and have no relevance to society at large. Bringing them up in this conversation therefore does nothing but legitimize the right's claim that the left is just as bad.

When people are marching with torches in support of slash shipping, let me know.

edited 14th May '18 8:37:22 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242112: May 14th 2018 at 8:41:12 AM

"Authoritarianism" isnt limited to dictatorships and tyriannies. It's a mental attitude that places deference to authority and adherence to a social hierarchy as primary values. It doesnt even have to be political, necessarily, although it usually manifests that way. "Being authoritarian" can be as simple as tellilng someone to shut up because they "have no right" to object to something or express an opinion on a particular matter. Browbeating someone to get them to stop disagreeing with some official or semi-official party line is a traditional tactic of political authoritarians. "Gamergate" can be seen as one expression of such authoritarianism, as is doxing in general.

Authoritarianism is the act of trying to put some category of person in an inferior social position with respect to some other category of people who seek a privileged place, usually as subordinates of some idolized cult figure.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242113: May 14th 2018 at 8:42:37 AM

[up] If telling people to stop being assholes is authoritarian. Then I am the new Stalin

Watch me destroying my country
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#242114: May 14th 2018 at 8:42:51 AM

Bringing them up in this conversation therefore does nothing but legitimize the right's claim that the left is just as bad.

So, in other words, it's best to just ignore them because they don't have the size and power to do any real damage, and instead concentrate on the groups (like the alt right) who do.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#242115: May 14th 2018 at 8:43:29 AM

[up][up]That is so obviously not what they're saying that I have to question if you even read their post.

[up]Exactly this. They're a non-issue brought up by the right to act as a boogeyman to support their false equivalencies.

edited 14th May '18 8:44:14 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#242116: May 14th 2018 at 8:43:48 AM

[up][up][up][up]GG was not authoritarian. It was nothing more than misogynistic resentment on the part of gamers exploding for the flimsiest of excuses.

edited 14th May '18 8:44:15 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#242117: May 14th 2018 at 8:46:27 AM

So, in other words, it's best to just ignore them because they don't have the size and power to do any real damage, and instead concentrate on the groups (like the alt right) who do.

Correct. If there's a problem with that kind of rhetoric being thrown around in a particular fandom than sure, that's a problem for that fandom and might be worthy of discussion when it comes to how to make that community more pleasant. But it does not matter here.

I get why people are annoyed by some fan behaviours. I've been harassed by obnoxious yaoi fangirls and slash shipping crusaders. I've been told that shipping two canonically straight characters is homophobic because some teenage girl somewhere doesn't find it hot. But I have not, prior to this conversation, mentioned it here, and once this conversation is over, hope never to mention it again, because it's not relevant to US Politics.

Aggravating shippers make attending cons unpleasant. They don't hit people with their cars.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#242118: May 14th 2018 at 8:46:40 AM

[up][up] If Angry Leftists on internet are Authoritarian, GG sure should be.

edited 14th May '18 8:47:03 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242119: May 14th 2018 at 8:49:10 AM

[up][up] exactly. A vocal minority that just complains on tumblr about X fandom, or some other crap like that, is annoying, but not a threat.

A vocal minority that wants to take away other peoples rights, encourages terrorism against certain groups, etc, most certainly is.

Those things are in no way equivalent, and by trying to compare them, we are just legitimizing it, and letting them define the debate.

edited 14th May '18 8:52:51 AM by megaeliz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#242120: May 14th 2018 at 8:50:01 AM

"If telling people to stop being assholes is authoritarian."

Dont strawman me, dude. You didnt see me say that.

"If Angry Leftists on internet are Authoritarian, GG sure should be."

There we agree. Not all angry leftists, obviously, but some of them are.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#242121: May 14th 2018 at 8:50:11 AM

[up][up] Especially when said vocal minority helped put into power someone like Trump who repays them by enabling and validating them. To the point that he "bothsides" shit even when one of them commits a vehicular homicide.

edited 14th May '18 8:50:19 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#242122: May 14th 2018 at 8:52:15 AM

GG was utterly pathetic. We're talking about grown men flying into an absolute rage over bias in video game coverage. I could practically taste the stale Doritos and Mountain Dew while reading those forum threads ranting about "Ethics in Video Game Journalism.". Then women had the nerve to say that a poorly socialized, male-dominated subculture was misogynistic and you had basement dwelling white men screaming about oppression. It was just too much; that was like the last straw for me, and I've really not been able to stomach gaming culture much ever since.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#242123: May 14th 2018 at 8:54:06 AM

Gaming culture has always been a refuge for toxic masculinity, and #GG is still a banned topic.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#242124: May 14th 2018 at 8:57:11 AM

As I said, making the comparison is letting them set the terms of the debate.

The "Social Justice Warrior", just like the "War on Christmas" is largely an invented boogieman created by the Alt-Right and their precursors, to justify their bigotry and defend their privilege.

edited 14th May '18 9:00:39 AM by megaeliz

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#242125: May 14th 2018 at 8:57:39 AM

It's usually not just Tumblr these people rage against. It's college campuses with their safe spaces and trigger warnings and whatnot.

Of course, that's still just some dumb kids at a college campus. Some of them are overzealous but they are hardly an existential threat to the nation or the Leftist cause, which is usually the argument.


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