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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
As a freelance reporter living in Trump's America, I think I have a damn good reason to be afraid that the government will want to censor me, given how often he rails against so-called "fake news".
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
x6 Nik does have a point though; there are BLM individuals who do say things that would count as hate speech, and they would be arrested just the same as any Neo-Nazi or Klansman would. But there's an even worse problem with censoring hate speech; we live in a society where Minorities, particularly Black Americans, are more likely to suffer the full penalty for a Crime compared to White Americans. So you're going to be filling prisons with Black People who say "F*ck the Cops", while literal Neo-Nazis and Klansmen will get a slap on the wrist and be on their merry way.
I'm not gonna say Hate Speech laws won't work in this country; I will absolutely say that Hate Speech Laws will work too well on Minorities compared to White People, just like almost every Criminal Law in this Country, and until this problem is fixed, I wouldn't be supportive of Hate Speech Laws.
edited 13th May '18 9:30:47 AM by DingoWalley1
"...Nik. Buddy. My man. You're seriously comparing the KKK and Nazis to BLM."
That was wrong of me. I was originally going to just say NOI but I figured people would be like "okay, ban those fuckers, too." I was just trying to point out any group can advocate for violence. Sometimes these groups are justified like with BLM. Other times they aren't, like with the KKK.
The law will make no distinction between these two though and will probably come down harder on BLM or similar organizations for the simple fact that everything else the government does comes down particularly hard on minorities.
"Of course, it's never explained how we're different. "
We're racist motherfuckers who elected Trump and won't pass universal healthcare because something something dictatorship.
We are exceptional - exceptionally worse than practically every other Western country.
"Also, if the idea of censoring hate speech makes you worried that eventually the government will be coming for your speech next, I have to wonder what it is about your beliefs that make you think the government would want to censor them."
I have Leftist viewpoints and the entire 20th Century says my government hates me for that.
I’m confused, how does saying “fuck the cops” fall under “advocating genocide”?
So you were going to make a legit comparison but realised that not everyone might share your view that we shodulshould let murder advocates walk free, so you made a false comparison because you’d ‘win’ the argument better with it?
Have I got that right?
Yeah and incase you hadn’t got the memo your government t is coming for you regardless of if hate speech laws exist, I fail to see how banning genocide advocates is going to put your even more at risk.
Either the government is good and will follow the law and thus leave you alone, or the government is bad and will ignore the law and come after you, either way outlawing calls for genocide makes no difference.
A bad government will persecute the innocent unjustly regardless of if we have laws allowing for the just persecution of the guilty.
edited 13th May '18 9:40:41 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI gave examples of multiple minority groups that have records of hate speech and advocacy of violence. It's just one is more justified than the other.
What I said was that the law protects them as much as it protects the Nazis and that is a totally valid point.
edited 13th May '18 9:41:32 AM by Nikkolas
I fail to see how BLM calling for the mass murder of cops is justified, understandable sure, but not justified.
Edit to edit: and my point is that I fail to see why they should be protected by the law, the guy who shot a bunch of cops in Texas a while back doesn’t deserve to walk just because black people have suffered, this is the same. Advocating for mass murder is wrong, I don’t understand why that’s such a hard common ground to reach.
edited 13th May '18 9:43:39 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI mean, to me, it's all just words. They did not actually try to kill any police officers. Call it justified or understandable, all they were doing was airing harmless frustration.
How about this. What do you think the purpose of freedom of speech is if not to protect unpopular ideas? Do you support all hate speech restrictions or are you just for making calls for violence illegal?
edited 13th May '18 9:46:22 AM by Nikkolas
It's been said but bears repeating: a bad government is going to punish you no matter what, and a racist government will enforce any law unfairly.
Black people are more likely to be punished for car theft than white people. That doesn't mean we make grand theft auto legal. Now, you can make the case that there are some laws which are both so unevenly enforced and so unnecessary for society to function that they should be disposed of. That's the logic some people use to argue for drug legalization.
But then, of course, you'd have to prove that hate speech laws are a comparable case, and that's not really doable, because near every country that's banned calls for violence against minorities has seen a reduction in, wait for it, violence against minorities.
Britain has a history of colonizing territories whose population at least lightly tan and voted to leave the EU two years ago. Canada also has its fair share of racism as Ambar will tell you But lo and behold, they have hate speech laws.
i'm tired, my friendI mean the guy who shot the cops in Texas certainly did kill people, do you not see the link between the people calling for the murder of cops and the guy who went out and actually murdered cops? It’s the same link between the people calling for the murder of black people and the guy who shot up a black church.
I don’t belive that freedom of speech serves a purpose in of itself, I belive that it’s a useful principle in moderation to allow for the free expression of ideas and for the peaceful criticism of power structures. It’s like the free market, it might work, but it still needs a ton of regulation to keep it free and avoid to destroying society.
All is a big category, I support a lot of hate speech restrictions, beyond just calls for violence I think there are other behaviours that need to be outlawed and regulated, genocide denial being one of them.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranOf course, it's never explained how we're different.
While I suspect that black advocates for violence will suffer worse consequences than white ones they kinda fall into asshole victim territory. We’re not going to see black people just saying “fuck the police” jailed under such laws, we might see them jailed anyway because of racist cops, but racist cops will unfairly arrest black people without legal justification without such laws as much as they will with such laws.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranFrom the News & Guts Facebook
:
We appear to have another Giuliani gaffe. Donald Trump's latest lawyer has contradicted the Department of Justice and the White House by saying "the President denied" the AT&T-Time Warner merger. That's a problem as the executive branch has long denied Trump's involvement.
https://www.newsandguts.com/rudy-giuliani-misspeak/
In an interview with Huffington Post Giuliani was talking about whether Michael Cohen was able to influence the President on behalf of clients from whom he was receiving “consulting fees.” That’s when he stepped in it:
Giuliani said Cohen’s business relationships did not contradict Trump’s campaign promises to end “pay-to-play” schemes and to “drain the swamp” because Cohen did not get for his newfound clients what they wanted.
“Whatever lobbying was done didn’t reach the president,” Giuliani said, offering as proof the fact that AT&T’s proposed merger with Time-Warner has not gone through. “He did drain the swamp … The president denied the merger. They didn’t get the result they wanted.”
The problem is this is different than what the White House has said in the past. They have always said Trump wasn’t involved in this case at all.
The White House was quick to chime in shortly after Giuliani’s comments. It looks like they are still saying Giuliani doesn’t exactly have his facts straight.
Despite a denial from the White House, some say Giuliani’s comment may need to be investigated further.
edited 13th May '18 11:47:35 AM by sgamer82
You have the world you have, though. A major argument against the death penalty in the US is that its application is so riddled with racial disparity as to be inherently unconstitutional even if the death penalty by itself would be constitutional.
If a law becomes a tool of racial oppression, then it doesn't matter at what point that law becomes a problem - it needs to be removed.
...That's actually kind of tempting, you know.
Less humorously, abandoning laws that aren't strictly necessary to protect minorities from the disparate impact of the law is probably a good idea. It's why I support decriminalization of all drug use and elimination of "presumptive intent" to sell - whatever the merits of drug laws in theory, in practice they are disproportionately employed against minorities for the benefit of the prison-industrial complex.
edited 13th May '18 12:05:30 PM by Ramidel
Less humorously, abandoning laws that aren't strictly necessary to protect minorities from the disparate impact of the law is probably a good idea. It's why I support decriminalization of all drug use and elimination of "presumptive intent" to sell - whatever the merits of drug laws in theory, in practice they are disproportionately employed against minorities for the benefit of the prison-industrial complex.
I'm not all for blanket decriminalization because 2000 people die every year in Kentucky from O Ds. The thing is, almost all of those people who die from O Ds are doing so on legal prescription drugs because the pharmaceutical companies blanket lied on their addictiveness as well as danger to doctors in order to sell more. They may have deliberately increased the addictiveness to create a market for people who need them.
Because they're evil.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I'm more concerned about the drug producers than addicts in terms of criminal liability.
And yes, I absolutely think it should be descriminalized for softer drugs and treated as a health issue for harder.
edited 13th May '18 1:41:35 PM by CharlesPhipps
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

I fail to see a problem with arresting people who advocate for the murder of all police, the assumption that I would have a problem with Trump hat honestly says more about the person making that assumption than any of the left wing posters here.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran