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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241876: May 11th 2018 at 5:20:43 PM

Just to echo Smokey and give some more context, the case I linked to had the woman abscond with her 15-day old daughter because she was due to sign over custody of the infant that day - it triggered an AMBER Alert that lasted 7 hours, and thankfully everything turned out okay in the end.

And yes, the underlying idea would be to just prevent a situation like that from being possible, and as I said before, the only way it could be done today is if it were voluntary but at government expense. Forcibly doing so conjures up eugenics entirely too strongly, and not too many would be willing to do so of their own accord, especially if they don't have much money to start with.

So from my view, it's less about punitive justice and more about offering a preventative option for mothers (and honestly, this could apply to fathers/"glorified sperm donors" as well; see the British case where one man had 30 children by multiple mothers, who received roughly $1.25 each in child support as a result) to help reduce the burden on the social safety net. And with that case, he was in court in 2009 for having 21 children and said he didn't intend to have any more - cue 9 more children in just 3 years. I can't help but think the guy would have leapt at the chance to have a vasectomy done if he wasn't footing the bill, though I'm not sure whether the procedure would be covered by NHS or not, so I might be grossly misinformed on that one.

Edited to include a link to a non-Daily Fail outlet.

edited 11th May '18 5:30:06 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241877: May 11th 2018 at 5:24:10 PM

I'm just not sure what benefit you'd get, because there'd be a hell of a lot of downsides as far as optics.

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241878: May 11th 2018 at 5:28:19 PM

The Religious Right would very much approve of sterilizing the people who are unlikely to take care of children—especially the Poors!

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#241879: May 11th 2018 at 5:35:59 PM

Michigan GOP plan to exempt white areas from Medicaid work requirements, but enforce in black areas

Michigan Republicans' plan to require some recipients of government health insurance to work would disproportionately affect black people, a Washington Post analysis of new data from state health officials reveals.

State Republicans are moving a proposal through the legislature that would impose work requirements on some Medicaid recipients, arguing new rules are necessary to push people into jobs and off taxpayer-subsidized health plans.

The proposal would exempt people living in counties where the unemployment rate tops 8.5 percent, a provision GOP lawmakers say is aimed at protecting those living in areas where job opportunities are scarce.

Medicaid enrollment data provided to The Post by the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services shows that this exemption would overwhelmingly benefit white people while leaving the work requirements in place for all but a sliver of the affected African American population.

Without the exemption, the work requirements are projected to apply primarily to approximately 700,000 Michigan residents enrolled in Medicaid under broader eligibility rules passed under Gov. Rick Snyder (R).

African Americans make up about 23 percent of that population, but they would make up only 1.2 percent of the people eligible for the unemployment exemption. White people make up 57 percent of the total potential affected population, but they make up 85 percent of the group eligible for the unemployment exemption, according to an analysis of the state's data.

Saw this coming a light year away. Knew they would only go for economically liberal policies if they exclude black people

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#241880: May 11th 2018 at 6:10:23 PM

[up] And of course they will deny they are shitting on black people specifically even though it's blatantly obvious that is what they are doing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241881: May 11th 2018 at 6:11:36 PM

[up]

The phrasing gives enough plausible deniability, unfortunately.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241882: May 11th 2018 at 6:14:19 PM

Mueller probing donations with foreign connections to Trump inauguration

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has questioned several witnesses about millions of dollars in donations to President Donald Trump’s inauguration committee last year, including questions about donors with connections to Russia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, sources with direct knowledge told ABC News.

Those interviewed included longtime Trump friend and confidant Thomas Barrack, who oversaw the fundraising effort, as well as individuals familiar with the massive inaugural fund, according to sources with direct knowledge.

Barrack, a real estate investor, has long been described as a Trump “whisperer” whose close friendship with the president landed him a prime appearance during the GOP convention the night Trump accepted his party’s nomination.

The billionaire runs a fund with hundreds of millions in real estate and private equity holdings in the Middle East. Barrack oversaw the largest inaugural fundraising effort in U.S. history, bringing in $107 million – more than double what President Barack Obama raised for his first swearing-in festivities.

According to a source who has sat with the Mueller team for interviews in recent weeks, the special counsel is examining donors who have either business or personal connections in Russia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. Several donors with those ties contributed large sums to the non-profit fundraising entity – gifts that topped out at $1 million dollars, according to public records.

Special counsel investigators have also asked witnesses about specific inauguration donors, including American businessmen Leonard Blavatnik, and Andrew Intrater, according to sources familiar with the Mueller sessions.

Neither has been accused of any wrongdoing. note 

Blavatnik is a billionaire with dual U.S. and British citizenship who has extensive business ties in Russia. Blavatnik gave $1 million to the inaugural fund through his company, Access Industries, according to FEC records. Companies are prohibited from giving donations to political candidates, however, donations to inaugural committees are not considered donations to candidates.

A spokesman for Blavatnik did not respond to questions from ABC News.

Intrater, an American relative and business associate of Russian billionaire Viktor Vekselberg, runs a U.S. company with deep ties to Vekselberg’s Russia-based global conglomerate, Renova Group. Renova was recently sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department.

Intrater serves as the CEO of Columbus Nova, an investment company based in New York. FEC records show Intrater made a $250,000 donation to the Trump inauguration committee in early January 2017.

Following the donation, he and Vekselberg attended Trump’s inauguration, according to published reports. Also in 2017, Intrater gave another $35,000 to Trump Victory, the joint fundraising committee for the Trump campaign and Republican party. Of that, $29,600 went to the Republican National Committee.

Intrater has not responded to inquiries from ABC News.

Vekselberg, a Russian national, was questioned by the Mueller team after stepping off his private jet at a New York-area airport, The New York Times reported earlier this month. Vekselberg has also been in the headlines this week after the attorney for adult film star Stormy Daniels, Michael Avenatti, alleged that Veksleberg directed payments to a company formed by Cohen’s totaling $500,000.

The alleged payments, made by Columbus Nova — the firm led by Intrater — were listed in a seven-page document prepared by the law firm representing Stormy Daniels.

Daniels alleges she had a sexual encounter with Trump in 2006.

The document outlines what it claims are $4.4 million in payments to a corporate entity set up by Cohen shortly before the 2016 elections. The payments allegedly come from both obscure companies and well-known brands — foreign and domestic — including AT&T. Several of those companies have extensive business before the U.S. government.

The alleged payments continued until earlier this year.

Columbus Nova said in a statement earlier this week that the firm’s work with Cohen was not improper.

"Columbus Nova is a management company solely owned and controlled by Americans. After the inauguration, the firm hired Michael Cohen as a business consultant regarding potential sources of capital and potential investments in real estate and other ventures,” Columbus Nova's attorney Richard Owens said in the statement. “Reports today that Viktor Vekselberg used Columbus Nova as a conduit for payments to Michael Cohen are false. The claim that Viktor Vekselberg was involved or provided any funding for Columbus Nova's engagement of Michael Cohen is patently untrue. Neither Viktor Vekselberg nor anyone else other than Columbus Nova's owners were involved in the decision to hire Cohen or provided funding for his engagement."

Why these individuals would be of interest to the Mueller team remains unclear. The expanded probe sheds light on a possible growing area of interest to the Mueller investigation.

So far, the Mueller probe has led to nearly 20 indictments including plea deals for cooperation for two Trump loyalist – former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn and Deputy Campaign Manager Rick Gates.

kazuauchiha from Springfield, MO Since: Jul, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#241883: May 11th 2018 at 6:40:34 PM

I thought the 14th. amendment prohibited policies like that. sad

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241884: May 11th 2018 at 7:02:27 PM

God, I have never prayed for you to smite people, but I am sorely tempted.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#241885: May 11th 2018 at 7:05:08 PM

So is the Michigan thing being taken to court?

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#241886: May 11th 2018 at 7:12:59 PM

@Charles

What if he operates on Misery Builds Character?

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#241887: May 11th 2018 at 7:13:02 PM

[up][up]It would have to be passed first. That hasn't happened yet.

edited 11th May '18 7:13:20 PM by TheRoguePenguin

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241888: May 11th 2018 at 7:44:43 PM

I believe that's the case now.

However, it's overcoming evil where humanity benefits.

  • goes into philosophical gobbledygook*

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#241890: May 11th 2018 at 11:25:04 PM

So torture is back in the news. That's always fun. However, the real story that interests me is that Mc Cain is apparently not as popular as I thought. See, he (supposedly) cracked under torture therefore torture works and is a good thing. He's known as "Songbird" John to these folks and is a horrid traitor and they are glad to mock a dying old man for (again, supposedly) cracking under torture.

I first heard this on Fox which is the real shocking thing. Further research took me to the worst of the right wing conspiracy nuts where this shit belongs but having somebody repeat it on Fox is pretty gross.

edit:

Vox Article on the Right's hatred for Mc Cain https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/11/17345060/trump-mccain-2016-2018-right-wing

The Fox video I mentioned earlier with a healthy mocking from The Majority Report:

edited 11th May '18 11:45:04 PM by Nikkolas

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#241891: May 11th 2018 at 11:34:06 PM

I know that McCain is not very popular and we probably wouldn't agree on a lot of things, but the sheer amount of disrespect he's getting lately is shocking. It actually makes me angry. There is no bottom to the depravity of the people mocking him — and some of these people are members of his own party! How quickly they move to eat their own.

Do not obey in advance.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#241892: May 11th 2018 at 11:49:11 PM

McCain fought tooth and nail against the Tea Party in Arizona and loathes Trump, it's not surprising to me that the extreme regressives who are chiefly motivated by spite hate him and have no sense of decency about him at all.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#241893: May 11th 2018 at 11:49:25 PM

As my roommate said the other day, in reference to a story about Republican politicians turning on each other (I forget which ones and where), "Soylent Green is Republicans!"

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#241894: May 12th 2018 at 1:26:57 AM

On the child abuse thing, the topic behind forced sterilisation is the same logic behind cutting the hands off of thieves, stupid logic.

Now for that exact case there was clearly a failure of the system, but the failure was that the women was ordered to hand the child over but was then allowed to go free without handing the child over. The fix is simple, you don’t give people judged unfit to raise a child a delay before the child is taken, that’s just asking for them to do a runner.

edited 12th May '18 1:27:10 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241895: May 12th 2018 at 5:57:19 AM

He's known as "Songbird" John to these folks and is a horrid traitor and they are glad to mock a dying old man for (again, supposedly) cracking under torture.

When that claim first made the rounds was back in the 2008 Primary, and Politifact rated it as "Pants on Fire!" back then, and Fox News has reportedly cut ties with McInerney for floating the idea again, with the host of the segment, Charles Payne, apologizing for not calling it out then and there.

For his part, McCain did admit to breaking under torture, but only so far as to lie about being treated well by the Vietcong, and a "confession" he'd signed made such ludicrous statements as claiming to be a black woman, as his torturers weren't exactly fluent in English (similar to the "Hawaiian Good Luck Sign").

[down]

Which is why McCain has been one of, if not the, most outspoken critics of the idea - he saw firsthand that the information gained from it is unreliable, and that's not even getting into the ethical considerations of it.

edited 12th May '18 6:08:30 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#241896: May 12th 2018 at 6:00:14 AM

"Torture works" only so much that, when you break, you'll do or say whatever the torturer wants solely to make it stop.

edited 12th May '18 6:00:26 AM by sgamer82

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241897: May 12th 2018 at 6:02:23 AM

There was an intriguing court filing in the Micheal Cohen case, filed a few days ago.

Lawyer for 2 Schneiderman Accusers Brought Their Claims to Michael Cohen

A lawyer who says he once represented two women who claimed that the former New York attorney general, Eric T. Schneiderman, had “sexually victimized” them several years ago, asserted on Friday that he discussed their claims in 2013 with an unlikely person: Michael D. Cohen, Donald J. Trump’s longtime lawyer and fixer.

The lawyer for the women, Peter J. Gleason, offered his surprising account in a letter submitted to Kimba M. Wood, the Manhattan federal judge who is overseeing an ongoing investigation into Mr. Cohen. In the letter, Mr. Gleason asked Judge Wood for an order to protect any records that Mr. Cohen might have concerning their discussion of the women — a step he felt was needed after federal agents seized boxes of documents in a series of raids on Mr. Cohen’s office, apartment and hotel room last month.

“The extent of Mr. Cohen’s memorializing any of our communications is unknown,” Mr. Gleason wrote. “However, these two women’s confidentiality, as victims of a sexual assault, should be superior to that of any unrelated subpoena.”

In an interview shortly after his letter was filed, Mr. Gleason — without offering details or corroborating evidence of his account — said that during their conversation five years ago, Mr. Cohen told him that if Mr. Trump, who was thinking of running for New York governor at the time, were to be elected, he would help bring to light the women’s accusations against Mr. Schneiderman.

A deep animus had existed between the two men, prompted by a $40 million civil fraud lawsuit that Mr. Schneiderman filed against Mr. Trump’s for-profit educational venture, Trump University, in August 2013.

The filing of Mr. Gleason’s letter marked an extraordinary convergence of two of the moment’s most explosive news stories: the abrupt demise of Mr. Schneiderman, who quit his job on Monday amid allegations that he had physically assaulted four former girlfriends, and the case of Mr. Cohen, who is under investigation for potentially having broken the law by trying to suppress negative coverage of Mr. Trump in the run-up to the 2016 election.

The letter also shed new light on the simmering feud between Mr. Trump and Mr. Schneiderman, one that was inflamed anew this week as several of Mr. Trump’s supporters took to social media to revel in Mr. Schneiderman’s downfall.

As for Mr. Gleason, he is a well-known figure in New York’s legal and political circles. A former firefighter, he mounted a failed campaign for City Council in 2003 and last year briefly sought to challenge the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., as a write-in candidate. In his legal practice, he has shown a penchant for involving himself in salacious, tabloid-ready cases. In 2012, for instance, he represented Anna Gristina, the so-called Soccer Mom Madam, who was accused of running a brothel on Manhattan’s Upper East Side. (At a hearing in the case, Mr. Gleason offered to put up his own Tri Be Ca loft to help pay Ms. Gristina’s bond and told the judge that she and her family could move in with him while she awaited trial.)

In his interview on Friday, Mr. Gleason also said that he had told several elected officials of his concerns about Mr. Schneiderman’s abusive behavior nearly five years ago, but was rebuffed.

“The highest levels of our state and city government were well aware of Eric Schneiderman,” he said.

Mr. Gleason refused to identify the officials, and noted that the women he represented were not among the four who came forward this week in an article in The New Yorker that prompted Mr. Schneiderman’s resignation.

A spokesman for the law firm of Clayman & Rosenberg, which is representing Mr. Schneiderman, declined to comment. Lawyers for Mr. Cohen did not return a call seeking comment.

In his letter, Mr. Gleason said that after his attempts to assist the women fell on deaf ears, he decided to take their accusations against Mr. Schneiderman to Steve Dunleavy, a former columnist for The New York Post. According to the letter, Mr. Dunleavy “offered to discuss the matter with Donald Trump.”

Within a day of speaking with Mr. Dunleavy, Mr. Gleason said, he received a phone call from Mr. Cohen.

“In the conversation,” Mr. Gleason recalled, “I said, ‘Listen, I’m looking for somebody to help.’ At the time, Trump was considering running for governor. And Cohen said, ‘If Trump runs and wins, you’ll have an ally for bringing these women forward.’”

Mr. Gleason added, “I’m no fan of Michael Cohen, but he was sympathetic.”

At that point, Mr. Trump and Mr. Schneiderman were warring over Trump University in a legal battle bitter enough that Mr. Trump eventually filed a complaint against Mr. Schneiderman with New York State’s ethics watchdog agency. In the wake of the lawsuit, Mr. Trump also posted a cryptic attack on Mr. Schneiderman on Twitter, comparing him unfavorably with two other Democratic politicians felled by scandal: former Representative Anthony D. Weiner and former Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

“Weiner is gone, Spitzer is gone — next will be lightweight A.G. Eric Schneiderman,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Is he a crook? Wait and see, worse than Spitzer or Weiner.”

Mr. Gleason said that Mr. Trump’s Twitter attack was prompted by his conversation with Mr. Cohen.

“That tweet that Trump sent out about Schneiderman,” Mr. Gleason said, “my conversation with Cohen happened shortly before that.”

On Friday afternoon, Judge Wood ordered Mr. Gleason to file his request for a protective order as a formal legal motion, not a letter. If he did not do so by May 18, she said, he would have to withdraw the request.

Mr. Gleason’s account was supported in part by Jeanne Wilcke, the treasurer of the Downtown Independent Democrats, a New York City political club that Mr. Gleason belongs to. In an interview on Friday, Ms. Wilcke said that in 2013, Mr. Gleason had warned her about Mr. Schneiderman without revealing any specific details.

“He told me I should be very careful about Schneiderman,” Ms. Wilcke said. “Not to be in a room alone with him — for women, it was bad.”

Ms. Wilcke, a former president of the organization, noted that the club had supported Mr. Schneiderman for many years. But, she added, “every once in a while, Pete would again give me a warning. It registered with me.”

It doesn't seem like the lawyer acted in bad faith, but the whole thing is just strange.

edited 12th May '18 6:09:15 AM by megaeliz

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241898: May 12th 2018 at 6:07:17 AM

[up]

Yeah, that struck me as just weird, and honestly, when you combine Schneiderman's claim that it was Safe, Sane, and Consensual (though apparently there might have been a miscommunication on that last part) with this news and the report a few months back that right-wing strategists were hoping to bombard Democrats with claims of sexual misconduct, the waters get very muddy.

[down]

Thought Trump would back them - we've seen time and again that Trump's word is about as reliable as... something unreliable.

edited 12th May '18 6:37:07 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#241899: May 12th 2018 at 6:21:07 AM

Seems pretty clear to me, they first went to Trump’s lawyer because they knew that Trump would back them due to his partisanship, but Trump decided not to run and they later came out publicly.

Cohen is going to have legitimate clients with whom he had legitimately privillage conversations, it’s entierly legit that said conversations are protected.

On Schneiderman's denial, I find it entierly believable that he thought they were just engaging in kinky roleplay while they were genuinely terrified and to afraid to say anything.

edited 12th May '18 6:22:13 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241900: May 12th 2018 at 7:38:39 AM

[up] It wasn't Trump's Lawyer. It was another attorney, Peter J. Gleason.

edited 12th May '18 7:44:59 AM by megaeliz


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