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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241851: May 11th 2018 at 11:35:26 AM

You can summarize how much the government cares with the Lottery Scam.

100% of all profits goes to schools from the state lottery.

100% of all profits are matched by the reduction in education funding.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#241852: May 11th 2018 at 11:37:15 AM

The problem is that educational standards are under the control of state and local school boards. There currently is no way to impose a national curriculum. The closest we have come is to attach federal educational grants to standardized test scores, but thats a highly politicized process.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241853: May 11th 2018 at 11:39:25 AM

[up] is there a way we could base that on average income instead? Schools in poorer areas are going to need more help than schools in more well to do areas.

edited 11th May '18 11:42:05 AM by megaeliz

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241854: May 11th 2018 at 11:53:09 AM

Bush's attempts to federalize schools was one of the worst things to ever happen to the American education system.

"No child left unfucked."

edited 11th May '18 11:54:06 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#241855: May 11th 2018 at 11:54:04 AM

It's really hard to sell the idea of giving more aid to struggling school districts. Americans have this erroneous notion of meritocracy, where poorer average test scores and drop out rates are due to the inferiority of the schoolchildren, the teachers, or the local superintendent, rather than because a poorer school district will have a shallower tax base, ergo fewer supplies, classes, quality teachers, and indeed, school hours.

It all comes back to "muh bootstraps."

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241856: May 11th 2018 at 11:55:11 AM

It used to be a very popular issue.

But schools don't pay politicians' campaigns or give them or their cronies jobs.

Every dollar for a child's future is one less dollar they can pocket.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#241857: May 11th 2018 at 11:59:59 AM

To go along with my earlier link about the Democratic options for Idaho governor:

Endorsement | Paulette Jordan gets our nod in Democrat race for Idaho governor #idpol https://t.co/8ls6daGNAm

https://twitter.com/IdahoStatesman/status/994933305656033281?s=19

edited 11th May '18 12:00:10 PM by sgamer82

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241858: May 11th 2018 at 2:00:30 PM

So here's one that I know will get me some flak (and I can't even say it's wrongfully-so), but there was an AMBER alert in my area yesterday after a 31-year-old mother absconded with her 15-day old daughter, as she was supposed to sign over custody to someone else due to two prior children she lost custody over. Thankfully the two were found and nothing bad happened, and no charges are filed against the mother

So here's where the Flame Bait is - should situations such as this, where the mother has already been found unfit to raise their child(ren) for X/Y/Z reason, trigger a tube-tying? Preferably voluntary but at government expense, but I also understand how that could tapdance way too close to eugenics to be palatable.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241859: May 11th 2018 at 2:06:29 PM

[up] I guess my question is why? What benefit would that provide to society?

They should have sent a poet.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#241860: May 11th 2018 at 2:08:12 PM

[up][up]hell no. Involuntary tube-tying is a practice associated with eugenics. There’s never a reason to follow that.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#241861: May 11th 2018 at 2:18:17 PM

I'd support imprisonment for such unfit mothers before I'd advocate forced sterilization. That's inhumane.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241862: May 11th 2018 at 2:34:01 PM

I see no point to such a punishment when imprisonment is more than enough. It's just pointless and probably unconstitutional (seems rather 'cruel and unusual').

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#241863: May 11th 2018 at 2:46:07 PM

No real point. If you're going to punish someone like that, why not just imprison them or execute them?

Leviticus 19:34
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#241864: May 11th 2018 at 3:47:04 PM

Carbon credits and cap-and-trade were working for a while, weren't they? Basically, give them money not to poison everyone on the planet.

Yes and no.

By itself, the idea of trading allowances isn't a good or effective idea. Emissions capping combined with powerful legislation that backs up the capping is where the key to any kind of success comes in.

For example, supporters of cap-and-trade will always point to acid rain as the default success story. That is, however, simplification. It also ignores the fact that the system is vulnerable to abuse: trading allowances enables corporations to profit while obtaining good PR for minimal changes to their way of doing things.

Emissions capping did have a powerful impact on the main sources of the substances that contributed to acid rain. However, at the same time cap-and-trade policies were being implemented, very strong legislation was being brought in. More importantly, this was a wide-spread approach. European and North American countries were working in a similar direction at a similar time.

Now, here's the catch.

If we had to pin down one single game-changer in the fight against acid rain, that would (in the US) be the Clean Air Act, which came into being in 1970 and was strengthened in the 90s. It helped empower emissions capping in industries that burned fossil fuels (for example, Canada had issues from nickel smelting). However, the success that has been achieved is due to several things being implemented in a lot of countries at a similar time to achieve the same goal, all of which came together to achieve a powerful effect.

Acid rain is still a problem to this day, albeit much less so than in the past. While 'improvement' is a success story, it's not 'cured' or 'not a problem any more'. Some of the problems are legacy issues — issues caused by the peak acid rainfalls in the 80s and 90s and which are either still lingering to this day, or only just being discovered and identified as existing (let alone being recognised as a problem).

So, imagine for a moment if Trump actually kept his campaign promise to revitalise the coal industry and was successful at it or his administration got its way over all the oil drilling it wants to do off the American coastlines. That wouldn't simply mean jobs for coal miners and oil workers, it would mean revitalising the industries that use coal and oil as well. Increasing fossil fuel burning brings back high acid rain levels. With environmental protections currently being rolled back or weakened, cap-and-trade successes will be undone as well.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#241865: May 11th 2018 at 3:47:46 PM

Hence why my preference would be "Hey, it'd be nice if you got your tubes tied, and we'd even be willing to fit the bill for it" instead of a forcible operation. Hell, it'd be about the only way it *could* be implemented, but almost exclusively for cases like that, where the mother has already been found to be "unfit" to have custody of her own children. I haven't been able to find a single thing about why that ruling was first rendered, though, so I don't know if it's as horrific as having abused a previous child or as mundane as having a developmental disability that means she has the IQ of a pre-teen or something.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#241866: May 11th 2018 at 4:01:38 PM

[up]No. It shouldn't be a thing period.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#241867: May 11th 2018 at 4:02:44 PM

How would a woman getting her tubes tied be legally and ethically justifiable as a legal punishment?

Do not obey in advance.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241868: May 11th 2018 at 4:03:21 PM

Seems like really bad PR for little benefit, if she spawns more children and then abuses them then they get put in the foster system and she gets put in jail. There isn't really any point to sterilizing her.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#241869: May 11th 2018 at 4:05:49 PM

[up]I guess the point is that unless she gets a life sentence, which I doubt anybody gets life sentences for abusing children short of killing them, eventually she'll get out and possibly have more children, thus beginning the cycle anew. And while I see the possible motivator for seeking a permanent solution, there's gotta be a better way than that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241870: May 11th 2018 at 4:12:03 PM

[up]Right or maybe she sees that treating her children poorly isn't worth it and stops, my point stands that this is terrible optics that offers little real benefit and probably isn't even constitutional.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#241871: May 11th 2018 at 4:18:00 PM

Typically if someone who has lost custody of their kids due to abuse has another kid, that one is automatically taken away when they’re born.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241872: May 11th 2018 at 4:21:24 PM

[up]There we go, there's even less reason to sterilize her.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#241873: May 11th 2018 at 4:43:53 PM

Yeah, even putting ethical issues aside, I'm not really sure what the point would be.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#241874: May 11th 2018 at 4:47:47 PM

Because it "feels" right maybe? like how people say they want rapists to suffer Prison Rape.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241875: May 11th 2018 at 4:51:04 PM

[up]This sounds about right, it's less about practical benefits and more about punitive justice. Which... isn't good for society (as the current mass incarceration situation should clearly demonstrate).

edited 11th May '18 4:51:22 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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