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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241551: May 8th 2018 at 11:34:07 AM

Is the debt thing news?

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about Trump's business practices knows he's been about attaching his name to businesses in exchange for cash, taking a cut, and then moving on. He provides legitimacy for illegitimate businesses in foreign companies, launders money for criminals, and is the king of illegal behind the scenes deals that provide gentrification for areas that he wants to sell to rich people.

He also probably murdered his Atlantic City business partners by arranging their helicopter crash through his mob ties. No, I'm not making that up.

This has been known for decades and why Trump started doing business outside of America.

edited 8th May '18 11:35:20 AM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#241552: May 8th 2018 at 11:37:48 AM

And during all this, nearly half the country will applaud rapturously.

So this is how soft power dies...with thunderous applause.

edited 8th May '18 11:38:06 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#241553: May 8th 2018 at 11:39:23 AM

So I see that global trust in America will more than likely erode even further. And for something as nonsensical as pulling out of a deal that all but halts Iran's nuclear progress? And Iranians who have more of a positive reception to America may feel let down due to this pointless withdrawal? All because of blind egoism and ignorance?How fucking amazing.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#241554: May 8th 2018 at 11:41:45 AM

[up][up][up] Far too many people, even now that his dirty laundry is more public than it's ever been, take the image of Trump that he sent out to the world (the one where he's just a "wealthy and famous businessman" which he promoted through such things as The Apprentice, Home Alone 2, and all the businesses and products he attached his name to). They see the Donald Trump that Donald Trump wants the world to see, not the Donald Trump that Donald Trump actually is, and they're not going to look behind the curtain to see him for themselves.

edited 8th May '18 11:43:01 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241555: May 8th 2018 at 11:41:50 AM

Trump pulled out of the environmental pledge despite it literally having "set your own goals."

Which means it's just a pledge NOT to pollute if you really want to.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#241556: May 8th 2018 at 11:55:13 AM

Any chance this will affect North Korea? If Kim decides the US isn't trustworthy, he might back off from negotiations.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#241557: May 8th 2018 at 11:59:50 AM

The 2011 (special) election, 2012 election and 2016 election for governor were all won by democrats, the only reason West Virginia has a Republican Governor now is because the democrat who won switched to being a Republican.
Ok, I guess WV is a little more purple than I thought.

[up] Why would Kim pull out? He's almost got the moral high ground compared to Trump.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#241558: May 8th 2018 at 12:04:05 PM

Ultimately, Kim's dealing is with the South. So question is, if Moon would tell Trump to pull out US troops to make sure the treaty sticks

"You can reply to this Message!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#241559: May 8th 2018 at 12:06:09 PM

So even if pulling out of the Iran Deal is really just because "Fuck Obama" what is the line they'll be going on with it, to make it sound less stupid and petty than that?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241560: May 8th 2018 at 12:07:00 PM

"It's a bad deal."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#241561: May 8th 2018 at 12:07:07 PM

Keep in mind that this will also empower the Iranian hardliners, put a wedge between the US and the rest of the West, and might just cause Tehran to rush for breakout capability when it becomes clear that keeping to their word is not guarantee that the US will act in good faith.

No good is going to come from this, beyond Israeli and American hardliners being less butthurt.

Thankfully, a large chunk of the American public opposed this mood, and while I doubt it will cause longterm issues for the GOP/Trump, it might cut their recent polling boost.

Final note, the other members of the pact are under zero obligation to end it. This wasn't a unilateral treaty.

edited 8th May '18 12:09:41 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Snipertoaster from Mind Your Business (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#241562: May 8th 2018 at 12:17:28 PM

I just caught a glimpse of this on the BBC live feed, but Trump responded to a journalist asking how this would make America safer with simply "This will make America safer".

He wasn't even trying with that one. But then, when has he ever when it comes to important shit?

We can choose to be better.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241563: May 8th 2018 at 12:33:41 PM

[up] I'm pretty sure he doesn't know (or care) himself.

edited 8th May '18 12:34:04 PM by megaeliz

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#241564: May 8th 2018 at 12:38:35 PM

Rule 1 of the Cynical Politician: when in doubt, stare into the camera and speak with confidence.

Rule 2: Raise your voice if someone else it also doing that.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241566: May 8th 2018 at 1:40:20 PM

President Trump’s Approval Rating Has Been Steady. Richard Nixon’s Once Was Too

A very interesting article from Five Thirty Eight, as the title says a major focus on it is the empirically supported idea that just because a President has consistent ratings (like Trump or Nixon) does not mean that it's safe to assume that things can't get worse for them. Furthermore it also spends time to point out that we should be highly skeptical of the idea that Trump will be doomed suddenly, that's something that would most likely take time if it ever happens.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#241567: May 8th 2018 at 1:42:33 PM

Indeed, remember that W Bush didn't crash overnight, his popularity was gradually eroded during his 2nd term by the Iraq quagmire, and then a stagnating/crashing economy cut into his GOP support, sending him into the 20s.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#241568: May 8th 2018 at 2:08:30 PM

[up][up][up] Except Iran is Putin's ally, so this doesn't help him.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#241569: May 8th 2018 at 2:15:55 PM

[up] Putin doesn’t have allies. He has patsies. Iran is one of the more expendable ones in his quest to destabilize the world.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#241570: May 8th 2018 at 2:23:50 PM

I think in this case, Moscow wanted the deal to hold, because a Iran vs Israel/Saudi Arabia conflict is going to get their proxies blown up if it happens.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#241571: May 8th 2018 at 3:06:33 PM

Here's Obama's official statement on withdrawing from the Iran Agreement. God, I miss having, intelligent, articulate people in politics.

There are few issues more important to the security of the United States than the potential spread of nuclear weapons, or the potential for even more destructive war in the Middle East. That’s why the United States negotiated the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) in the first place.

The reality is clear. The JCPOA is working – that is a view shared by our European allies, independent experts, and the current U.S. Secretary of Defense. The JCPOA is in America’s interest – it has significantly rolled back Iran’s nuclear program. And the JCPOA is a model for what diplomacy can accomplish – its inspections and verification regime is precisely what the United States should be working to put in place with North Korea.

Indeed, at a time when we are all rooting for diplomacy with North Korea to succeed, walking away from the JCPOA risks losing a deal that accomplishes – with Iran – the very outcome that we are pursuing with the North Koreans.

That is why today’s announcement is so misguided. Walking away from the JCPOA turns our back on America’s closest allies, and an agreement that our country’s leading diplomats, scientists, and intelligence professionals negotiated. In a democracy, there will always be changes in policies and priorities from one Administration to the next. But the consistent flouting of agreements that our country is a party to risks eroding America’s credibility, and puts us at odds with the world’s major powers.

Debates in our country should be informed by facts, especially debates that have proven to be divisive. So it’s important to review several facts about the JCPOA.

First, the JCPOA was not just an agreement between my Administration and the Iranian government. After years of building an international coalition that could impose crippling sanctions on Iran, we reached the JCPOA together with the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the European Union, Russia, China, and Iran. It is a multilateral arms control deal, unanimously endorsed by a United Nations Security Council Resolution.

Second, the JCPOA has worked in rolling back Iran’s nuclear program. For decades, Iran had steadily advanced its nuclear program, approaching the point where they could rapidly produce enough fissile material to build a bomb. The JCPOA put a lid on that breakout capacity. Since the JCPOA was implemented, Iran has destroyed the core of a reactor that could have produced weapons-grade plutonium; removed two-thirds of its centrifuges (over 13,000) and placed them under international monitoring; and eliminated 97 percent of its stockpile of enriched uranium – the raw materials necessary for a bomb. So by any measure, the JCPOA has imposed strict limitations on Iran's nuclear program and achieved real results.

Third, the JCPOA does not rely on trust – it is rooted in the most far-reaching inspections and verification regime ever negotiated in an arms control deal. Iran’s nuclear facilities are strictly monitored. International monitors also have access to Iran’s entire nuclear supply chain, so that we can catch them if they cheat. Without the JCPOA, this monitoring and inspections regime would go away.

Fourth, Iran is complying with the JCPOA. That was not simply the view of my Administration. The United States intelligence community has continued to find that Iran is meeting its responsibilities under the deal, and has reported as much to Congress. So have our closest allies, and the international agency responsible for verifying Iranian compliance – the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

Fifth, the JCPOA does not expire. The prohibition on Iran ever obtaining a nuclear weapon is permanent. Some of the most important and intrusive inspections codified by the JCPOA are permanent. Even as some of the provisions in the JCPOA do become less strict with time, this won’t happen until ten, fifteen, twenty, or twenty-five years into the deal, so there is little reason to put those restrictions at risk today.

Finally, the JCPOA was never intended to solve all of our problems with Iran. We were clear-eyed that Iran engages in destabilizing behavior – including support for terrorism, and threats toward Israel and its neighbors. But that’s precisely why it was so important that we prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Every aspect of Iranian behavior that is troubling is far more dangerous if their nuclear program is unconstrained. Our ability to confront Iran’s destabilizing behavior – and to sustain a unity of purpose with our allies – is strengthened with the JCPOA, and weakened without it.

Because of these facts, I believe that the decision to put the JCPOA at risk without any Iranian violation of the deal is a serious mistake. Without the JCPOA, the United States could eventually be left with a losing choice between a nuclear-armed Iran or another war in the Middle East. We all know the dangers of Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon. It could embolden an already dangerous regime; threaten our friends with destruction; pose unacceptable dangers to America’s own security; and trigger an arms race in the world’s most dangerous region. If the constraints on Iran’s nuclear program under the JCPOA are lost, we could be hastening the day when we are faced with the choice between living with that threat, or going to war to prevent it.

In a dangerous world, America must be able to rely in part on strong, principled diplomacy to secure our country. We have been safer in the years since we achieved the JCPOA, thanks in part to the work of our diplomats, many members of Congress, and our allies. Going forward, I hope that Americans continue to speak out in support of the kind of strong, principled, fact-based, and unifying leadership that can best secure our country and uphold our responsibilities around the globe.

edited 8th May '18 3:09:00 PM by megaeliz

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#241572: May 8th 2018 at 3:15:43 PM

Come back, Obama. You don't even need to be President again. Just be a stand-in until we can get someone more qualified into office, please.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241573: May 8th 2018 at 3:35:02 PM

There's a good argument that Rudy is personally, not indirectly, responsible for a lot of the brutality and shift toward fascism in the Republican party.

Also, the model for Trump (and vice versa).

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/05/message-you-rudy-giuliani/

https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/08/vanishing-new-york-gentrification/537126/

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#241574: May 8th 2018 at 3:39:21 PM

Ugh, it has not been a good few days for anyone not a Trump cultist. NBC got a report about wiretapping wrong (and thus gave Trump an excuse to attack the "fake news" media yet again), a judge questioned whether Mueller's investigation is overstepping its bounds (thus giving ammo to those, such as the president, who claim the investigation is a witch hunt), Schneiderman stepped down due to abuse allegations (thus allowing Trump supporters to claim that neither side is morally superior, or worse yet, spreading the lie that ONLY Democrats do this kind of thing), and now backing out of the Iran deal ("See? Trump keeps his promises!"/"We won't be pushed around anymore!"/"Obama's deal was a disaster, Trump will make a better one! MAGA!").

I'm sure there was something else but I forget what it was.

EDIT: [up] I mean, that theory is supported by the latest John Oliver episode, where he reminded the audience that during the '90s and early 2000's, Giuliani green lighted policies in the NYPD that allowed them to ignore people's civil liberties.

edited 8th May '18 3:46:21 PM by speedyboris

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#241575: May 8th 2018 at 3:46:51 PM

Frankly a good deal of that is Trump supporters doing what they would've done otherwise, now the Iran deal is legitimately awful but other than that I don't think that today was specially bad.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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