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KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241376: May 6th 2018 at 7:05:56 PM

[up] Right Wing Anarchists actually make internal sense, especially National Anarchism. I mean, they are not morally good, but it does make some sense.

America does have that tradition where they are Uber Individualists that arent bound for Goverment. The idea of the lonely Cowboy Cop saving his people is both a Uber Individualist and a Right Wing idea.

Anarchism is a weird term in general that, honestly? It can be used for practically everyone

edited 6th May '18 7:07:30 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#241377: May 6th 2018 at 7:07:15 PM

At some point after WWII we Americans stopped thinking fascists, Nazis or otherwise, were a threat. Which probably goes a long way to explain why we've been so damn lenient with Neo-Nazis and alt-righters. And then we got President Trump.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#241378: May 6th 2018 at 7:08:34 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Regarding the subject of polarization, I've floated around the idea of the Spanish Civil War being taught in high schools to senior history classes. (I do remember enjoying that topic immensely.)

It's a very mixed bag. The civil war would ideally serve as a warning against polarization - because that's exactly how Spain was up to the war. The entire Spanish left and right saw the other as a threat standing in the way of progress. It got so bad, that as a Spanish officer once stated, just seeing a socialist just walking by in the street was like seeing a serial killer stomping towards you.

But at the same time, I fear that the civil war will end up being misused, specifically by the right-wing. The Spanish Republicans did commit atrocities too, and while those were mainly from the far-left, I'm certain that this will be brushed aside in favor of "those liberals killed priests/burned down churches then, and want to do the same to all of us now!"

Plus, the less worship of the Spanish Nationalists themselves - especially Franco and the Falangists - the better. (Although the Carlists are interesting in that they were very uncomfortable working with fascists, to the point where it broke out in hostilities post-war.)

edited 6th May '18 7:10:27 PM by TheWildWestPyro

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241379: May 6th 2018 at 7:10:28 PM

Right wing anarchism is pretty much repackaged third positionism. They get all the crappy parts of both sides of the political spectrum and then say they're above it .

Interestingly, there's a pretty strong history for right wing anarchism. Conservative revolutionaries contributed a lot to anarchist thought.

They should have sent a poet.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#241380: May 6th 2018 at 7:15:38 PM

As I said in the other thread, you don't need to believe in government to believe in hierarchy. A right wing anarchist acknowledges some people are better than others and maybe has a desire for order but for whatever reason (racial and religious a lot of the time) they think government is an illegitimate order and undeserving of loyalty.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241381: May 6th 2018 at 7:18:50 PM

[up] I have to support this conception.

Watch me destroying my country
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241382: May 6th 2018 at 7:19:07 PM

Right wing anarchism is usually a fusion of anarchist economics and identitarian social politics. National Anarchism is particularly notable for being super racist and nationalistic. Anarcho-fascism isn't much better.

Anarchists don't necessarily disapprove of order, more the structures which create order. That's why there's room for right wing anarchism, especially considering the strong libertarian/anti-state currents in the US.

edited 6th May '18 7:20:45 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#241383: May 6th 2018 at 7:29:03 PM

It was mainly hierarchy I was thinking of. One basic, fundamental difference between Left and Right is that the Left favors egalitarianism and the Right favors hierarchy. (one reason I will probably never be a good Leftist even as I support the Dems and Progressives)

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#241384: May 6th 2018 at 7:31:40 PM

[up]

Also the Right tends to be more fond of centralized governments and keeping stability.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#241385: May 6th 2018 at 7:37:21 PM

You can’t be an anarchist and support a strict hierarchy, anarchism is all about opposing hierarchy, you can be an anarchist and support government, but not hierarchy.

That’s why right-wing an anarchists tend to belive in no real formal hierarchy, they however tend to ignore informal hierarchies and thus their commitment to anarchism is questionable.

This is before you get into the sub-set of political thought that argues that anarchism is just a sub-branch of communism, and right wing communism doesn’t make sense, you’d end up with some kind of national sociali... Oh, never mind, I think I’ve identified the right wing anarchists guys.

edited 6th May '18 7:38:04 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#241386: May 6th 2018 at 7:51:37 PM

Not all Anarchistsare Kropotkinites just like not all Socialists are Marxists. There are many strands of both that either predate Marx or developed separately.

And it's kinda funny to say the Right favors strong, centralized government. It's true but the American Right's rhetoric for the last 50 years has been thetotal opposite of that.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241387: May 6th 2018 at 7:58:47 PM

[up]At some point after WWII we Americans stopped thinking fascists, Nazis or otherwise, were a threat. Which probably goes a long way to explain why we've been so damn lenient with Neo-Nazis and alt-righters. And then we got President Trump.

Eh, it's actually the case the racist authoritarian state based governments of the South were dismantled and they've been trying to regain that ever since. I don't think Nazism infected American fascism so much as our own home grown one has co-opted some of its imagery.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241388: May 6th 2018 at 8:02:46 PM

I have to admit that I still considerate Right Wing Anarchists as "real" anarchists. Mainly because I like to fight against self proclaimed Freedom Fighters.

Which I guess is why I will never fully fit with neither Left or Right

Watch me destroying my country
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#241389: May 6th 2018 at 8:06:34 PM

[up]

Mainly because I like to fight against self proclaimed Freedom Fighters.

Excuse me?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241390: May 6th 2018 at 8:11:32 PM

[up] I always find the "I'm the real liberator from the evils of socialism/capitalism/others" a bit childish.

Watch me destroying my country
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241391: May 6th 2018 at 8:16:38 PM

[up][up][up][up] I'd hesitate to call the CSA anything other than racist. They weren't competent or coherent enough to be anything else. The whole thing barely held together and was mismanaged to the point of insanity, and the botch job they did on the Constitution to justify slavery ensured that they never would have been a functioning union.

[up][up][up] Right wing anarchism is the least common form of anarchism. Anarchism is a classically left wing phenomenon.

edited 6th May '18 8:17:56 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241392: May 6th 2018 at 8:19:52 PM

It was definitely a one issue union but the restriction of rights, militarism, and oppression was all there—just on one group of people.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#241393: May 6th 2018 at 8:34:20 PM

The CSA's ideology could be boiled down to "SLAVERYSLAVERYSLAVERY".

Disgusted, but not surprised
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#241394: May 6th 2018 at 8:36:56 PM

[up]This. There were all sorts of reasons related to it, but no matter how you sliced it, slavery was at the core of each and every one of them.

edited 6th May '18 8:37:08 PM by kkhohoho

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#241395: May 6th 2018 at 8:41:13 PM

[up][up][up] All of that was essentially tangential to the whole slavery thing. They weren't properly militaristic, seeing as their military was barely organized and none of them could decide whether they should even have one or not. They weren't properly authoritarian, since they only really cared about government authority if it was over black people. They weren't really properly anything other than racist.

I don't think it's completely accurate to say that fascism in the US stems from the CSA. In a sense it sort of does, because fascism in the US has really always been motivated by racism and xenophobia and the CSA embodies the worst of that, but it's not really so much of a direct connection.

edited 6th May '18 8:48:11 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#241396: May 6th 2018 at 8:53:33 PM

Re: Anarchism.

I know that Right Wing Anarchism is the least popular branch.

Re: CSA.

Yeah, it was all about Slavery. USA fought a war for that shit and remembering that makes them the laughing stock of other countries

Watch me destroying my country
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#241397: May 6th 2018 at 8:54:18 PM

Fascism in the USA does not stem directly from the CSA, though it is often heavily informed by Confederate and neo-Confederate imagery.

Where fascism does stem directly from in the USA is the Klan. They're often included on lists of protofascist groups, alongside the Young Turks of the Ottoman Empire, and rightfully so. Most of the things that Mussolini would eventually codify into fascism were present in one form or another in the original Klan, and remain present to this day.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#241398: May 6th 2018 at 8:56:16 PM

alongside the Young Turks of the Ottoman Empire

Ugh, and I had nearly forgotten about TYT too. It still boggles the mind that a self-proclaimed "progressive" organization named themselves after that.

Disgusted, but not surprised
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#241399: May 6th 2018 at 9:06:19 PM

They might not have. Besides the party, "young Turk" is also a term for a young, rebellious person, particularly with a political agenda.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#241400: May 6th 2018 at 9:09:33 PM

[up] From what I've seen on prior mentions of these guys, they're also deniers of the Armenian Genocide(?), which I understand as an incident the original Young Turks are infamous for. If I'm remembering correctly, it sort of undermines any "that's not it at all" argument.

edited 6th May '18 9:10:28 PM by sgamer82


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