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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#240501: Apr 30th 2018 at 6:35:20 PM

[up][up]In my case, I saw a movement I identified transforming into the very thing they fight.

Who He Fight With Monsters Indeed.

[up]In that case is their evern need to be badass, so they take everything they feel like into it.

edited 30th Apr '18 6:36:16 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#240502: Apr 30th 2018 at 6:49:12 PM

Mueller's interview questions: Part 2

Questions related to Attorney General Jeff Sessions

  • What did you think and do regarding the recusal of Mr. Sessions?

Mr. Trump has criticized Mr. Sessions’s recusal from the Russia investigation. The Times reported that Mr. Trump humiliated him in an Oval Office meeting and accused him of being disloyal. Mr. Sessions ultimately submitted his resignation, though Mr. Trump did not accept it. Along with the next two questions, this inquiry looks at whether Mr. Trump views law enforcement officials as protectors.

  • What efforts did you make to try to get him to change his mind?

The Times has reported that Mr. Trump told his White House counsel, Donald F. Mc Gahn II, to stop Mr. Sessions from recusing himself. Mr. Mc Gahn was unsuccessful, and Mr. Trump erupted, saying he needed an attorney general who would protect him.

  • Did you discuss whether Mr. Sessions would protect you, and reference past attorneys general?

Mr. Trump has spoken affectionately about past attorneys general who he said were loyal to their presidents. He cited Robert F. Kennedy and Eric H. Holder Jr. as examples. “Holder protected the president,” he said in a Times interview in December. “And I have great respect for that.”

  • What did you think and what did you do in reaction to the news of the appointment of the special counsel?

In a twist, Mr. Mueller’s very appointment has become part of his investigation. Mr. Trump has repeatedly denounced the inquiry as a “witch hunt.” Mr. Trump blames the appointment on Mr. Sessions’s recusal.

  • Why did you hold Mr. Sessions’s resignation until May 31, 2017, and with whom did you discuss it?

Mr. Trump rejected Mr. Sessions’s resignation after aides argued that it would only create more problems. The details of those discussions remain unclear, but Mr. Trump’s advisers have already given Mr. Mueller their accounts of the conversations.

  • What discussions did you have with Reince Priebus in July 2017 about obtaining the Sessions resignation? With whom did you discuss it?

Mr. Priebus, who was Mr. Trump’s chief of staff, has said he raced out of the White House after Mr. Sessions and implored him not to resign. Mr. Mueller has interviewed Mr. Priebus and would be able to compare his answers with those of Mr. Trump.

  • What discussions did you have regarding terminating the special counsel, and what did you do when that consideration was reported in January 2018?

Again, Mr. Mueller’s investigation intersects with its own existence. The Times reported that, in June 2017, Mr. Trump ordered Mr. Mc Gahn to fire Mr. Mueller. Mr. Mc Gahn refused. Though Mr. Trump’s own advisers informed Mr. Mueller about that effort, Mr. Trump denied it: “Fake news,” he said. “A typical New York Times fake story.”

  • What was the purpose of your July 2017 criticism of Mr. Sessions?

Mr. Trump unleashed a series of attacks on Mr. Sessions in July.

"Attorney General Jeff Sessions has taken a VERY weak position on Hillary Clinton crimes (where are E-mails & DNC server) & Intel leakers!''

Campaign Coordination With Russia

  • When did you become aware of the Trump Tower meeting?

This and other questions relate to a June 9, 2016, meeting at Trump Tower with a Russian lawyer who offered political dirt about Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., arranged the meeting. He said he did not tell his father about it when it happened.

  • What involvement did you have in the communication strategy, including the release of Donald Trump Jr.’s emails?

When The Times found out about the meeting, Mr. Trump helped draft a misleading statement in his son’s name, omitting the true purpose of the meeting. After The Times obtained the younger Mr. Trump’s emails, he published them on Twitter.

  • During a 2013 trip to Russia, what communication and relationships did you have with the Agalarovs and Russian government officials?

The Trump Tower meeting was arranged through the Russian singer Emin Agalarov, his billionaire father, Aras Agalarov, and a music promoter. Mr. Mueller is scrutinizing the nature of connections between the Agalarovs, Mr. Trump and Russian officials.

  • What communication did you have with Michael D. Cohen, Felix Sater and others, including foreign nationals, about Russian real estate developments during the campaign?

Mr. Mueller is referring to a failed effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. Mr. Sater, a business associate, proposed the idea to Mr. Cohen, the longtime personal lawyer to Mr. Trump. Emails show that Mr. Sater believed that the project would showcase Mr. Trump’s deal-making acumen and propel him into the presidency.

  • What discussions did you have during the campaign regarding any meeting with Mr. Putin? Did you discuss it with others?

Journalists and lawmakers have uncovered several examples of Russian officials trying, through intermediaries, to arrange a meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin. Senior campaign officials rejected some overtures, but Mr. Trump’s involvement has been a mystery.

  • What discussions did you have during the campaign regarding Russian sanctions?

Even as the Obama administration stepped up sanctions on Russia, Mr. Trump struck a laudatory tone toward Mr. Putin.

  • What involvement did you have concerning platform changes regarding arming Ukraine?

A portion of the Republican platform was changed in a way more favorable to Russia.

  • During the campaign, what did you know about Russian hacking, use of social media or other acts aimed at the campaign?

This is a key question. Mr. Trump praised the release of hacked Democratic emails and called on Russia to find others. Mr. Mueller’s investigation has unearthed evidence that at least one member of Mr. Trump’s campaign — George Papadopoulos — was told that Russia had obtained compromising emails about Mrs. Clinton. But Mr. Trump has repeatedly said there was “no collusion” with the Russian government.

  • What knowledge did you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort, to Russia about potential assistance to the campaign?

This is one of the most intriguing questions on the list. It is not clear whether Mr. Mueller knows something new, but there is no publicly available information linking Mr. Manafort, the former campaign chairman, to such outreach. So his inclusion here is significant. Mr. Manafort’s longtime colleague, Rick Gates, is cooperating with Mr. Mueller.

  • What did you know about communication between Roger Stone, his associates, Julian Assange or Wiki Leaks?

Mr. Stone, a longtime adviser, claimed to have inside information from Wiki Leaks, which published hacked Democratic emails. He appeared to predict future releases, and was in touch with a Twitter account used by Russian intelligence. This question, along with the next two, show that Mr. Mueller is still investigating possible campaign cooperation with Russia.

  • What did you know during the transition about an attempt to establish back-channel communication to Russia, and Jared Kushner’s efforts?

Mr. Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, has testified that the Russian ambassador proposed getting Mr. Flynn in contact with Russian officials to discuss Syria. In response, Mr. Kushner said, he proposed using secure phones inside the Russian Embassy — a highly unusual suggestion that was not accepted.

  • What do you know about a 2017 meeting in Seychelles involving Erik Prince?

The meeting was convened by Mohammed bin Zayed Al-Nahyan of the United Arab Emirates. It brought Mr. Prince, an informal adviser to Mr. Trump’s team, together with a Russian investor close to Mr. Putin.

  • What do you know about a Ukrainian peace proposal provided to Mr. Cohen in 2017?

Mr. Cohen, the lawyer, hand-delivered to the White House a peace proposal for Ukraine and Russia. This unusual bit of backdoor diplomacy is of interest because it involved a Ukrainian lawmaker who said he was being encouraged by Mr. Putin’s aides. Mr. Cohen has said he did not discuss the proposal with Mr. Trump.

This is big, and really shows how much Mueller knows. Prosecutors generally don't like asking questions they don't already know the answers too.

edited 30th Apr '18 6:49:40 PM by megaeliz

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240503: Apr 30th 2018 at 6:49:17 PM

Hdbomberguy is the only liberal Youtuber who directly confronts Sargon and his ilk who comes to the top of my head, while I can think of half-a-dozen alt-right or allied Youtubers. From my experience, the Internet left is mostly associated with Tumblr, and usually not in a positive way.

How big a risk is there to confronting them directly? I know they have allies in places like the chans, and they like to mock and harass openly liberal or feminist internet figures.

edited 30th Apr '18 6:49:27 PM by Raptorslash

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#240504: Apr 30th 2018 at 6:51:15 PM

It's not just confronting them, it's platforming them that's an issue. If you give them a platform, it gives their ideas a veneer of legitimacy and can lead to more people following them.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#240505: Apr 30th 2018 at 6:57:31 PM

[up]And if you dont give one, it give the impresion you cant debate them and their point have some merit by defeaut.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#240506: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:00:05 PM

Hardly. If the person's beliefs are "LGBT+ people should be exterminated", I'm not debating them. How does that give their beliefs legitimacy?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#240507: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:03:50 PM

That depends on what you mean by debate, I guess. Even if the "debate" is spent entirely on telling a person why that is both morally repugnant and has no actual grounding, there are probably people who are going to take that as legitimizing.

At the same time, not confronting people who say things like that doesn't seem much better. And you shouldn't assume anything is "self-evident", there's always going to be someone who needs something explained to them.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:04:32 PM by LSBK

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#240508: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:04:20 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Well there is also Shaun, and Three Arrows but they are newer and significantly less well now (for now at least).

Contrapoints, and Lindsay Ellis are also counted among the Youtube left (the former much more so then the latter) but they don't really confront right-wing youtubers directly.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#240509: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:06:18 PM

[up][up][up]Because he can cast your motives as being weak, unable to defeat him consider is Shitty beliefs, specially since they manage to hide by shinny and provocative rhetoric.

Milo is a good example of this: him being gay and having a black boyfriend allow him to pick away normals critism of being a nazi and allow is obvious trolling to go unpunish, is not until he fuck himself in a talk show that he crash and burn.

[up]Contra kinda does, she is a fan of Hitchen and in her tweet said at times the left need someone with is hability to tell someone was a piece of shit and a idiot, is just she try to not engaging that much with other youtubers.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:08:53 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#240510: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:12:56 PM

And people can make videos devoted to actually analyzing and tearing apart their beliefs in depth, something that has been done repeatedly by Hbomberguy, Contra, Shaun, and others. And I'd hardly call consider it a good idea to debate anyone who would say "X minority should be exterminated" and have mine or someone else's existence put down as something worthy of debate. If some people don't get that, then these people shouldn't be reached in the first place.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#240511: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:16:10 PM

Also, it's pretty unfair to demand that people debate white supremacists, Islamophobes, and misogynists on a platform where their fanbases have an unrestricted ability to threaten their lives and harass them with impunity.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#240512: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:16:17 PM

I think "shouldn't" and "couldn't" are different things. I understand a gut reaction to "If you don't get this right away, then screw you." but in the long-term that probably just makes things more difficult.

And that's not saying actually compromise on beliefs, just that taking time to explain them, even ones you think should be self-evident is important. But, like, this is just abstract. In real interactions it's probably easier to get a read on whether a person is actually interesting in what you have to say or not and if a person can't even give you that, no one has an obligation to try.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:17:24 PM by LSBK

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#240513: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:18:26 PM

Also, it's pretty unfair to demand that people debate white supremacists, Islamophobes, and misogynists on a platform where their fanbases have an unrestricted ability to threaten their lives and harass them with impunity.

All of this, basically. I shouldn't have to debate a transphobe and defend my right to fucking live.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240514: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:18:49 PM

In the case of Milo, he used his campus tours to directly attack and direct his fanbase to go after people.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:20:48 PM by Raptorslash

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#240515: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:19:42 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Many of those already come late in the issue, while guys like sargon and the rest already have plenty of time to establish a creed and the fact contra an the other are doing a good job show why is kinda necesary to debates those points.

"And I'd hardly call consider it a good idea to debate anyone who would say "X minority should be exterminated" and have mine or someone else's existence put down as something worthy of debate. If some people don't get that, then these people shouldn't be reached in the first place."

I dont want to be bad here but almost all those points have already being debate before: the idea of blacks being crminals, gays being promiscue, abortion, and so own, hell part of why the Skeptic comunity got so a pass before was because they actually discuss a lot of shit like arguing religious people get waaaaaay much protection on their speech a held of everybody else.

In this vein the alt right is not new, is just they found the tools use to tear down privilage people and go after minorities and everyone got caught off guard becuase of it.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:21:03 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#240516: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:23:54 PM

I will point out that US society did not debate with anarchists or communists, they used state power to crush them so effectively that in modern days "socialist" just means somewhat radical social democrats.

I see no reason that the same could not be done to the White Supremacists that advocate for genocide or other similarly hateful people.

edited 30th Apr '18 7:24:08 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240517: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:27:29 PM

The white supremacists are now the ones in control of state power, at least for the time being.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#240518: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:28:59 PM

I miss-typed, I see no reason it should not be done.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#240519: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:30:10 PM

Democrats are finally going to force a vote to save Net Neutrality, even if they're still short one vote, on May 9th.

Finally, took them long enough. I'm holding my breath, though: I don't think it'll pass the Senate (especially if the 50 votes hold, Pence will just tie break against the Democrats and Collins), and even if it does, it might not pass the House or Trump. It will look bad for Republicans if they kill Net Neutrality for the next 6 Months - 2 Years, though.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240520: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:40:44 PM

People like Milo and Gamergate also used things like #Not Your Shield and "I have a black boyfriend" to pretend they're not racist or sexist.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#240521: Apr 30th 2018 at 7:51:20 PM

The Good Fight actually dealt with Milo and the Alt-Right as one of their episodes last season. Their Captain Ersatz resisted all attempts for them to shut him up, debate, reason, or poke holes in their argument.

Essentially, deciding at the end, "You know, the big thing is this asshole just wants attention and we keep him in business by pretending he deserves it."

edited 30th Apr '18 7:52:42 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#240522: Apr 30th 2018 at 8:02:48 PM

Re:those questions from trump: they cannot be expecting a truthful answer from him. He’s a pathological liar first and foremost, and even if he doesn’t outright lie he could ramble. He’s probably hoping to use these as a gotcha for lying under oath.

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240523: Apr 30th 2018 at 8:35:06 PM

Trump's a known user of the Gish Gallop, so I'd expect as much from him.

Imca (Veteran)
#240524: Apr 30th 2018 at 8:37:38 PM

The problem is tobias hit the nail on the head.

Conservative propaganda is everywhere. Meanwhile, Democrats have a really bad habit of thinking that reality can speak for itself. It demonstrably cannot. Yes, it might sound really stupid that you would have to explain something like "The President interfering in an investigation into his misdeeds constitutes obstruction of justice even if he hasn't actually done anything wrong." That might seem incredibly obvious.

But if the only voices being heard are saying that it's not true, then that's what kids are going to hear. The Right pours a lot of time, money, and energy into brainwashing the next generation. The Left tends to just assume that everyone's smart enough not to be brainwashed. And that's how Trump happens.

We shouldnt have to debate the facts, we shouldn't have to debate our rights, or our right to live.....

But we fucking do.

It isn't a mater of should we have to, the results are showing that we sadly do.

Not debating the alt-right doesn't take a platform away, it lets them spread uncontested, especially to young people who are encountering an issue for the first time, because they don't see videos on how discrimination hurts us.....

No they get flooded with "Affirmative action takes jobs away from hardworking white men" or "Look at trigglypuff rant about how a man looking at her counts as rape" is it bullshit? Hell yes it is.

But we sadly have to get out there and clean the shit out of the stalls. Other wise it is just going to build up and we will drown in it..... :/

edited 30th Apr '18 8:45:53 PM by Imca

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#240525: Apr 30th 2018 at 8:52:01 PM

Jill Stein is resisting efforts by the Senate to obtain information about her campaign's contact with Moscow.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/politics/jill-stein-russia-documents-senate-request/index.html

Man, if she went down in this Russia investigation, that alone would be worth it. As much as Trump/the GOP need to be the primary target, her being discredited (if not indicted) would be cathartic.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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