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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#240451: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:12:10 PM

Gen Z is also leading the Gun Control movement, and have shown a remarkable amount of Solidarity in their response.

That's something to consider.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:14:00 PM by megaeliz

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#240452: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:12:37 PM

[up][up]The Forbes Op Ed Imca linked was getting last August. So it predates the passing of the tax bill, which was December of I'm remembering right.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:12:47 PM by sgamer82

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#240453: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:15:01 PM

If I could get one fact bludgeoned into everyone's heads, it would be that good personal finances are completely different from good national finances.

That or force everyone to go through a simulation and see how wrong it goes.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#240454: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:19:07 PM

[up][up][up]Something else to consider is that just because they might take up one traditionally left-leaning cause, and it's not necessarily universal, doesn't mean they would take up all of the other traditional left-leaning causes.

Though I find the measurements of church attendance to be a little dubious since we are talking about as generation that largely has not reached adulthood yet, and thus probably can't make to many decisions on that.

[up]Sadly any decent Economics education only comes at the post-secondary level, and even that is kind of a crapshoot (source, has Econ. degree).

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#240455: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:21:13 PM

If it was more common, I wouldn't want to make people know that, would I?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#240456: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:21:41 PM

Something else to consider is that just because they might take up one traditionally left-leaning cause, and it's not necessarily universal, doesn't mean they would take up all of the other traditional left-leaning causes.

Though I find the measurements of church attendance to be a little dubious since we are talking about as generation that largely has not reached adulthood yet, and thus probably can't make to many decisions on that.

This goes both ways, just because they might lean towards traditional right-wing positions does not mean that they'll reliably vote right-wing.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:21:52 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#240457: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:28:24 PM

@fruitpork: I'm mostly joking.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#240458: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:28:42 PM

[up][up][up][up]Exactly.

As we said before, thinking about National debt like personal debt is a fundimental misunderstanding of how Sovereign Debt works. Most people don't print their own money.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:29:15 PM by megaeliz

Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240459: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:34:20 PM

I guess part of this is wondering what it is about Trump and his policies that would appeal to Gen Z. His environmental policy sure isn't doing them any favors.

I know (from personal experience, although this never applied to me) that many teenagers go through a libertarian/Ayn Rand phase, and some grow out of it while others don't.

Imca (Veteran)
#240460: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:34:48 PM

"I can't think of psoble ways to engage with willfully ignorance of reality"

Honestly having had a bit of time to think more on the way to class (hence no direct quote, phone is anoying) this... kinda ties into what I personally think would be the best way to solve these issues.

Honestly, we just need to vastly increase our social media presence, a significant chunk of the problem is that the right is very fucking good at Internet marketing as disgusting as the people that do it are.

They have Milo, ThunderF00T, Sargon, and there ilk... They have the fucking memes which as stupid as they are get results, and things like that...

And as this new generation grows up on electronic devices, and the Internet it becomes all too easy for there first exposure to social issues being some SJW cringe video on youtube...

And as satisfying as it is to just nuke that content, when things like actual historical prices get caught up in that it just turns the right into mytars and the left into the big bully trying to supressor them

Instead we need to do what Amercia did in the past after WWII.. a tactic worked well for thr nazis? Why not adopt it... Get charismatic youtubers out to push for leftist issues, post alt-right cringe videos... and engage in -gag- meme warfare. :/

It's stupid, but it sure as hell seems to be paying off for the right, so why not steal it. We wouldn't even need to lie in ours

edited 30th Apr '18 4:39:24 PM by Imca

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#240461: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:38:51 PM

Pretty much every "Gen Z is ultraconservative" thinkpiece is dated to 2016 or 2017. The very first cohort of Gen Z to actually turn 18 and become politically active? They're probably the most stridently pro-gun control in public life today, and that's just one issue. Like, of course they have less college debt — most aren't even in college. And church attendance proves little, since even millennials were forced, once upon a time, to attend by our families.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#240462: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:39:59 PM

They have Milo, Thunder F 00 T, Sargon, and there ilk... They have the fucking memes which as stupid as they are get results, and things like that... And as this new generation grows up on electronic devices, and the Internet it becomes all too easy for there first exposure to social issues being some SJW cringe video on youtube...

This is what happens most of the time, actually. Since we usually get very little in the way of a proper education regarding the government, race relations, and economics it becomes very easy for those type of pseudo-intellectual cretins to gain ground and influence the culture of the internet to their liking.

This creates an atmosphere that makes recruiting for the alt-right far easier, and even if most people don't actually become alt-right it usually leads to people becoming edgy bothsider centrist types. The edgy provocateur thing is very appealing to a lot of teenagers (especially ones who are insecure or have some sort of hangup with other people or themselves) which doesn't help either.

I would however agree that it's a bit premature to assume anything about gen Z either way. I mean, they're practically the ones leading the charge on gun control for one thing. I don't think anyone was ever implying we should be complacent about reaching out to young people anyways.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:41:10 PM by Draghinazzo

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#240463: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:41:06 PM

Given all of the other issues around education I can't help but see trying to push for teaching economics at all (let alone Keynesian stuff and not some Austrian school tripe) seems rather low on the priorities list.

[up][up][up]So, get more people to do what Hbomberguy is doing?

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#240465: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:43:17 PM

Eh, people keep pushing for better finances education—I'd argue that, yes, since it overlaps with civics and political education, an idea of what government debt means and its role in stabilising an economy is important.

Of course, the modern right is vehemently against the concept, but I'm not sure there isn't anything actually useful they're for.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#240466: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:45:05 PM

As has been noted many times, the right has a better propaganda engine than we do. That's a problem.

Kids are as likely as anyone else to watch FOX News, but they lack the world experience to recognize bullshit when they see it. And they might not even have to watch it. Even more dangerous than FOX News segments are FOX News commercials, which don't even have to pretend to be factual.

Bob and Alice are watching The Simpsons and it cuts to commercial. Just before going back to the show, they see, "Coming up: are black people genetically predisposed to violence? FOX EXPOSES THE TRUTH at 11!" And then the show comes back on.

Now, the actual report might be like, "Answer: no, that's stupid. Anyway, back to Tom with the weather!" But that doesn't matter, because the kids aren't watching it. They just saw the commercial, and that's all they needed to see. It's why they even bothered running a pointless self-defeating segment in the first place: so they could air a commercial.

Kids are also consuming messages from video games, movies, and television. Let me tell you: most of those messages aren't very liberal. Even shit like My Little Pony has messages like, "The Native Americans were equally responsible for the unpleasantries of colonial America and if they had just embraced the superiority of the white settlers' culture, everything would have been fine."

Conservative propaganda is everywhere. Meanwhile, Democrats have a really bad habit of thinking that reality can speak for itself. It demonstrably cannot. Yes, it might sound really stupid that you would have to explain something like "The President interfering in an investigation into his misdeeds constitutes obstruction of justice even if he hasn't actually done anything wrong." That might seem incredibly obvious.

But if the only voices being heard are saying that it's not true, then that's what kids are going to hear. The Right pours a lot of time, money, and energy into brainwashing the next generation. The Left tends to just assume that everyone's smart enough not to be brainwashed. And that's how Trump happens.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240467: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:45:31 PM

When I went to school, we read Ayn Rand in English class (I think it was Anthem) and my school did some sort of deal with the Ayn Rand Institute to include the book. We were even encouraged to write essays about the book and Rand's ideas afterward.

Is Ayn Rand and her kind of libertarianism as much of a thing outside America?

Imca (Veteran)
#240468: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:46:06 PM

[up][up][up] Defence spending if they didn't just pork barrel it, and spend it on aspects of defence that are uneeded.

Which I feel is kind of the perfect sumation of the current amercian right, even when they are on an okay side of an issue they still fuck it up.

edited 30th Apr '18 4:46:48 PM by Imca

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#240469: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:49:34 PM

[up][up] I only know of her existence because of the US Right's obsession with her ideas.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#240471: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:58:46 PM

"Given all of the other issues around education I can't help but see trying to push for teaching economics at all (let alone Keynesian stuff and not some Austrian school tripe) seems rather low on the priorities list."

Economics education at the grade school level (i.e. Junior or Senior year in high school) is generally sort of pedestrian, and because classical liberalism has the most easily digested "Just So" Story theories, you generally get inculcated with a lot of Adam Smith, Alfred Marshall, Ludwig von Mises, and Friedrich von Hayek with nary a mention of Marx. And I went to a high school in a super liberal suburb of Boston. The sole exception to this is Keynes, who is so important that he can't be ignored and his accomplishments can't be downplayed.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#240472: Apr 30th 2018 at 4:59:34 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#240473: Apr 30th 2018 at 5:02:43 PM

I'm only familiar with Ayn Rand via BioShock.

So to recap: Millennials are people born around the 80s and 90s, while Generation Z are people literally born after the turn of the millennium?

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Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#240474: Apr 30th 2018 at 5:09:08 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#240475: Apr 30th 2018 at 5:14:29 PM

Trump shutting down government over the border wall would be a great gift for the democrats. All they have to do is promise clean spending bills (without monuments to xenophobia) and they look like the reasonable ones, while the Republicans will either have to override Trump's veto (pissing off the base), or go along with the circus (pissing off everyone else). All of this happening just over a month before the election...the ads write themselves.

edited 30th Apr '18 5:16:26 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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