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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FyodorDose Since: Mar, 2018
#239651: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:28:53 AM

It's interesting to me that the american political system, both republicans and democrats, exist on middle right of the traditional four-panel political compass. It's very much in contrast with world politics.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#239652: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:37:24 AM

[up] Really? Trying to say the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all the same?

edited 23rd Apr '18 9:38:15 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#239653: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:41:41 AM

Occupying the same political quadrant when all world parties are added doesn't make them the same and nor does saying they do create an equivalency.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#239654: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:47:23 AM

[up]It absolutely does create a sense of equivocation, not to mention that I would hardly call the GOP middle anything. At this point they're far-right authoritarians who are (barely) held in check by public pressure and institutional forces.

edited 23rd Apr '18 9:47:43 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#239655: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:47:24 AM

It very much is trying to draw an equivalence. Especially since they didn't bother to clarify where exactly each Party is on the chart. Or provide a reputable link to a chart that provides detailed explanations for why the Parties are placed where they are.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#239656: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:47:29 AM

538 did an overview of the upcoming special election in the Arizona 8th District. Long story short, the Democrats probably won't win here; the demographics aren't on their side and the district is even more Republican than the 18th Pennsylvania is. However, one poll had the Republican up by 3 points, in a R+25 district. If Democrats overperform their 2016 showing, its a good sign for other districts in the state come November.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-arizona-8th-special-election/

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#239657: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:52:17 AM

[up][up] Probably this one, and IIRC, both the Dems and Republicans are somewhere in the top right due to being relatively authoritarian to different amounts and pretty heavily free market.

Mind, the left hand side is all the schools of communism and the bottom is anarchism. I know there's a version that plots entire political schools onto it but I don't know if it's on that site.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#239658: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:52:36 AM

It's just a fact that the political conversation in the USA is skewed heavily. I think objecting to that being pointed out seems reactionary.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#239659: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:55:33 AM

[up][up] Ah yes, the one that had Hillary Clinton more to the Right than Donald Trump? That one? Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.

edited 23rd Apr '18 9:55:58 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FyodorDose Since: Mar, 2018
#239660: Apr 23rd 2018 at 9:56:36 AM

[up][up] That's the one. Both democrats and republicans exist in the blue square, and republicans are obviously further to the right. When I took the test, it put me smack in the center and a tiny bit to the left.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#239661: Apr 23rd 2018 at 10:02:48 AM

IIRC, the creator of that political compass chart is a British Green, and not particularly mainstream in their thinking in general. If you're fringe enough, all of human civilization fits into the top right.

edited 23rd Apr '18 10:03:11 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#239663: Apr 23rd 2018 at 10:33:15 AM

The political compass isn’t independent in any way, it was created by someone dissatisfied with the direction that Tony Blair took the Labour Party and there’s been a long standing accusation that the compass is designed not to give a fair representation but to make everyone not to the far left of Blair (who himself introduced civil partnerships, the minimum wage, a massive increase in NHS funding and more) look like a fascist.

Plus while it’s better than the line or the horseshoe it’s still not a good political representation, I’ve been wanting to do a cube design for a while now so you can include a globalist-isolationist axis.

edited 23rd Apr '18 10:35:55 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#239664: Apr 23rd 2018 at 10:35:38 AM

The Political Compass website has made their stubborn bothsidesism and false equivalence between the GOP and Democrats when it comes to discussing the US pretty clear as far back as 2012. They're not credible. Wouldn't even be surprised if it turned out to be Russian-funded.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#239665: Apr 23rd 2018 at 10:39:32 AM

So in minor political news Milo got run out of a bar for being a Nazi and everyone's favourite brogressive, HA Goodman admits he's voting for Trump next time. Both articles are opinion pieces, but provide links to the things they're referencing; feel free to snicker away.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#239666: Apr 23rd 2018 at 10:42:53 AM

Three articles I read today from NY Times with different emphasis on today's politics.

First one is how the disappearance of public servant jobs, such as teachers, nurses, and government agencies, has been pushed by the GOP in their bid to funnel ever-more money to the 0.01%. Full article text 

OKLAHOMA CITY — The anxiety and seething anger that followed the disappearance of middle-income jobs in factory towns has helped reshape the American political map and topple longstanding policies on tariffs and immigration.

But globalization and automation aren’t the only forces responsible for the loss of those paychecks. So is the steady erosion of the public sector.

For generations of Americans, working for a state or local government — as a teacher, firefighter, bus driver or nurse — provided a comfortable nook in the middle class. In recent years, though, the ranks of state and local employees have languished even as the populations they serve have grown. They now account for the smallest share of the civilian work force since 1967.

The 19.5 million workers who remain are finding themselves financially downgraded. Teachers who have been protesting low wages and sparse resources in Oklahoma, West Virginia and Kentucky — and those in Arizona who say they plan to walk out on Thursday— are just one thread in that larger skein.

The private sector has been more welcoming. During 97 consecutive months of job growth, it created 18.6 million positions, a 17 percent increase.

But that impressive streak comes with an asterisk. Many of the jobs created pay little more than the minimum wage and lack predictable hours, insurance, sick days or parental leave. The result is that the foundation of the middle class continues to be gnawed at even as help-wanted ads multiply.

Reducing state and local payrolls, of course, is a goal that has champions and detractors. Anti-tax crusaders have longed for a smaller government that delivers only the most limited services. Public-sector defenders worry that shortages of restaurant inspectors, mental health counselors and the like will hurt neighborhoods.

Because how dare we have taxes to promote a healthy, successful society.

Second is a straight Take That! aimed at both Cuomo and de Blasio, who the NY Times think are destroying the influence of New York. Full article text 

It was, almost without question, the low point of Andrew M. Cuomo’s political career.

The year was 2002, and Cuomo was badly trailing in the Democratic primary for governor and desperately seeking a graceful exit. He needed a loyal lieutenant, someone to help him salvage his future and negotiate the delicate terms of political surrender.

Cuomo turned to a trusted former colleague: Bill de Blasio.

Along with a cast that included President Bill Clinton, de Blasio was an indispensable emissary as Cuomo quit the race and endorsed his opponent, H. Carl Mc Call. It was the start of a fence-mending mission that would eventually land Cuomo the governorship eight years later.

The idea of de Blasio and Cuomo ever collaborating on anything seems almost unfathomable nearly 16 years later. The two Democrats are now engaged in a feud so nasty, petty and prolonged that even in the cutthroat politics of New York, few can remember ever seeing anything quite like it.

The two men have sparred over substance, silliness and everything in between: public housing and private workout routines, homelessness and topless women in Times Square, taxing millionaires and euthanizing a deer, a Legionnaires’ disease outbreak and state troop deployments, schools, snowstorms and the subways — even naps.

The contours of the feud, and its effects, have been puzzled over for years: Why would two men, whose stated goals often run on similar tracks, allow their onetime friendship to deteriorate into pure detestation?

This portrait of a relationship fractured is based on interviews with more than two dozen past and present aides, advisers and officials who have worked with Cuomo and de Blasio over the past two decades. Many spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals from either camp. Cuomo and de Blasio both declined to speak on the record.

In their own way, Cuomo and de Blasio both are vying to define the Democratic Party’s future in New York and beyond: the mayor as a progressive beacon for unrepentant liberalism succeeding, the governor as a deal-cutting Democrat who can actually make good on progressive promises.

But the compulsive rivalry makes both look small.

“All rules of political decorum are out the window with these two,” said Andrew Kirtzman, a New York communications strategist. “The Cuomo people genuinely feel that de Blasio is incompetent, and the de Blasio people genuinely feel that Cuomo is pernicious.”

Honestly I can't tell, but I have the nagging feeling that someone at the Times is pushing some Bothsiderism with an article to make a Democrat - any Dem - look bad. But at the same time, having a governor and mayor feuding like this isn't helping anyone who lives in the NYC area.

Lastly, the Times is pretty straight-forwardly saying that no, Trump will never be impeached, regardless of what evidence turns up against him. Full article text 

Folks, have a seat and get some tea. I have something to tell you that you may not want to hear: Everyone still hoping for Donald Trump’s removal from office is hoping against the odds.

Yes, Trump is wholly unqualified, lacking in morality and character, a consummate liar and surrounded by corruption. Yes, every day that he occupies the presidency he is a threat to this country, its ideas, conventions and comity, but also arguably to the safety and security of the world itself.

But, although a perspicuous case can be made for his removal, that is an uphill battle because enough of the public and the political class abhor impeachment and find removal to be extreme and indecorous, even for a compromised president.

It is possible that Trump could be impeached if the Democrats take the House of Representatives (odds are that they will) but a conviction in the Senate (where odds are the Republicans will retain a majority, however slim) is all but impossible.

A note of historical relevance: America has only ever impeached two presidents (Andrew Johnson in 1868 and Bill Clinton in 1998-99), but in both cases the Senate refused conviction, meaning that both men remained in office. Richard Nixon, whose name and legacy is often invoked relative to Trump, resigned before the House voted on his articles of impeachment.

Johnson was a Democratic president when Democrats were the racist conservatives and Republicans were the abolitionist liberals. He became president because he was vice president when Lincoln was assassinated. The Civil War had just concluded, and Reconstruction had already begun. Johnson, the racist that he was, opposed many aspects of Reconstruction.

But here is the hurdle that the founders built into the process to make it nearly impossible to remove a president: While it only takes a majority of the House to impeach a president, two-thirds of the Senate must vote to convict in order to remove the president.

In the Senate, the three articles of impeachment that were voted on all fell short by one vote, and that is because seven Republicans switched sides and voted with the Democrats for acquittal.

It is quite possible that trying to impeach and remove Trump could have the opposite effect than the one desired: It could boost rather than diminish his popularity and an acquittal by the Senate would leave an even more popular president in office.

Liberals have a tremendous opportunity this election cycle to fundamentally transform the topography of the political landscape and send a strong and powerful signal to Washington that the Resistance is a formidable force. But that only works if success is not restricted to and defined by Trump’s removal.

Sixty years from now, I really really hope there's still an America, with historians around to write absolutely scathing indictments of the politicians and their voters who put that asshat into power.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#239667: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:02:45 AM

I once read a very interesting analysis by someone who used to id as a TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminist). One thing she pointed out was how making it inconvenient to be one really helped make her eventually discard those ideals.

And that milo article reminds me of that. It being inconvenient to be bigoted is definitely a usually nonviolent form of social monitoring that I think often gets ignored to some extent. We see it on the safety level (get bigots away from me) which is completely valid, but I think we often forget how effective it can be in dissuading people from being actively bigoted.

And it's fairly telling how "easy" it is to drop those ideas and go back to a "normal" life as opposed to a lot of other ideals.

Read my stories!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#239668: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:10:22 AM

[up]Saw it in action in one of my classes this semester passed. Student made very bigoted comments in the first discussion. I failed him. He made somewhat less bigoted comments in the second discussion. I gave him a bare pass. In the third discussion, he suddenly discovered racism was bad.

Do I think I changed his mind? No. Do I think I made life better for all the African-American kids he'd been insulting beforehand? Absolutely.

edited 23rd Apr '18 11:10:30 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#239669: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:12:15 AM

[up]

Good on you. [awesome]

edited 23rd Apr '18 11:13:54 AM by TheWildWestPyro

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#239671: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:14:47 AM

Thirded on the [awesome]

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#239672: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:16:43 AM

@M84: That left-right division isn't really catalogued properly, it's more of a state controlled economy-rampant capitalism one. And with her support of free trade agreements like NAFTA or TPP, I guess that's why they put Hillary on that position of the chart.

edited 23rd Apr '18 11:17:37 AM by Grafite

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#239673: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:22:13 AM

[up]Yes which is stupidly reductionist, support of free trade is simply good economics and does not need to follow any specific part of the political quadrant.

Not to mention that the Right can support a state controlled economy, the Italian Fascists supported economic corporatism and some of the OG Reactionaries opposed capitalism.

edited 23rd Apr '18 11:22:57 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
FyodorDose Since: Mar, 2018
#239674: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:25:46 AM

It's more collectivism vs. individualism than anything. I agree a cube would probably be more accurate.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#239675: Apr 23rd 2018 at 11:29:34 AM

Clinton's support of government regulation would automatically put her further along "state controlled economy" than Trump, who while protectionist, does not advocate for any regulation of the businesses themselves. That graph was put together but someone ignorant enough to think that being anti-free trade is the only marker of liberalism.


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