Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
ICE is staffed by people like every other organization, and some of them will be believers in Trump's rhetoric.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Also ICE have at times not followed orders, such as when judges ordered them to stop enforcing to Muslim ban and they kept enforcing it.
Plus the law enforcement comparison doesn’t help, US law enforcement isn’t exactly free of racial abuse (my iPad autocorrect bias to abuse and I’m keeping it) either.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI mean, the FBI had (has) a pretty pro-Trump faction if recall during the election, but that doesn't mean they the organization should be entirely done away with.
Although, I don't even know what ICE's regular mundane stuff is, because all the focus is on the often cartoonishly evil immigrant round ups and deportations.
![]()
![]()
In all honestly (and this is just going off what I've read and seen so far), I'd say at least a quarter of ICE absolutely love what Trump has to say about immigration/immigrants.
As always, conservatives need their safe space.
edited 20th Apr '18 7:29:30 PM by SciFiSlasher
"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."I don't think ICE should be done away with, it's purpose (border control) is a useful one. Of course it should be reviewed and if necessary reformed if the institutional culture is toxic, which it very well could be but I don't know enough to be certain.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangICE is a sub-agency of DHS, so a lot of what it does involves tracking international crime and dealing with cross-border stuff that might not fall strictly under the jurisdiction of another agency. For example, they deal with human trafficking to and from other countries.
The problematic part is ERO. It's a division of ICE dedicated solely to rounding up and deporting illegal immigrants.
They should have sent a poet.Border control is a necessary function for any sovereign government. It's also traditionally one of the areas most ripe for abuses of all kinds. Maybe we could follow the example of some nations that are better at it?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@ ironballs: Gah, I didn't even notice the date on that Sekulow article, sorry! I guess since there's been no updates since then this means they couldn't prove him guilty or he settled out of court or something...
Re: Sessions, that's...odd. I also can't see him actually doing what he said he'd do, and yet the fact he said it is important. Maybe it's meant to reassure the few Republicans in the Senate, like Grassley, Graham, and Tillis, who have been making noise about the Mueller investigation, so they can continue to think they don't have to protect it. And after all, if he says he'll resign and then doesn't go through with it, what will that do? The Democrats can't exactly impeach him, and there's no other way to hold him accountable for not protecting Rosenstein or Mueller. (Unless of course he ends up charged himself by Mueller...)
![]()
I forgot to mention, interestingly ICE doesn't actually do border enforcement. That falls to CBP, specifically the US Border Patrol. One of the problems ICE has is that its jurisdiction is very much overlapping with other agencies, leading it to always be on the lookout for new ways to make itself useful and different.
Whether Trump is impeached, loses the 2020 election, or serves his full 8 years, I got a feeling he's going to write a book or do something similar to brag about how great of a President he was while also declaring NO COLLUSION and LOCK HER UP!
Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.I think that if the Democrats take the White House in 2020, they're going to need to divert massive funds to the DOJ to launch The Purge and hit every hint of corruption in the executive branch, up to an acceptable level of gutting of various agencies such as ICE. Perhaps we could make space for the new convicts in prison by pardoning drug offenders.
Question - could ICE be disbanded entirely, and if so, who would need to approve it? I mean, it's not like it's been around forever - it was only formed after 9/11.
Oh God! Natural light!![]()
![]()
A probe of corruption and negliance in the CBP and ICE is long overdue, I think. As the "Last Week Tonight" segment I posted showed, decreased vetting and training, has coincided with a skyrocketing rate of corruption and excessive force, and at least with the CBP has actually lead to criminals infiltrating it.
I think increasing the vetting process of potential candidates and stopping enforced hiring quotas would go a long way to preventing a lot of issues, as well
edited 20th Apr '18 10:27:12 PM by megaeliz
![]()
![]()
You'd need some kind of specific legislation to totally disband a federal agency. The president can move them around, but creating or disbanding them means money which means congress.
I'm not sure why we'd need to totally disband ICE though. It serves a lot of important functions. It's one of the main players in the JTTF, and the whole reason it (and DHS as a whole) were set up is because there were some pretty glaring gaps in our security and enforcement scheme that we identified after 9/11.
edited 20th Apr '18 10:26:02 PM by archonspeaks
They should have sent a poet.I see.
Well, you'd never get it done with a Republican majority in either the House or the Senate, though to be honest, I'm not sure if it would happen even with a Democratic majority in both. Then again, ICE seems to be on people's minds a lot more than it was during Obama's time in office, though I suppose I could have simply not been paying attention at the time...
Oh God! Natural light!ICE isn’t even an agency, it’s a sub-agency and the part that causes issues is just a department of that.
You could probably just apoint a director of homeland security that wanted that department scraped and have it done away with.
Though honestly that may not even be required, a full gutting and restaffing might be, depending on how deep the rot goes.
edited 20th Apr '18 10:27:08 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The definition of "federal agency" is extremely clouded, but as far as funding and creation there's not much difference between independent agencies, departments, and subordinate agencies. They're all kind of together.
Getting rid of or reformatting ERO seems like the most obvious solution. I don't really see any need for a specialized deportation force, really it seems like people should only be deported in a few very specific situations.
They should have sent a poet.As I said, I feel like a more thorough vetting process of potential agents, and getting rid of enforced hiring quotas, would go a long way to fixing some of it's most glaring issues.
that makes sense. Deportation is often (not always of course) more trouble than it's worth, and the way ICE does it is particularly cruel and thoughtless.
Reforming immigration courts would probably be a good idea as well. John Oliver did a segment on them
, and this is another good write up about them
, as well.
Good. The whole Marijuana scare was rooted in racism and classism, anyway.
edited 20th Apr '18 10:57:58 PM by megaeliz
On 4/20, Chuck Schumer To Introduce Bill To Decriminalize Marijuana
:
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., plans to introduce legislation on Friday to decriminalize marijuana on the federal level, adding a high-profile advocate in the effort to decriminalize, legalize and normalize marijuana use in America.
Schumer's legislation would remove marijuana from the list of scheduled substances under a 1970 law that classifies marijuana as dangerous as heroin for legal and regulatory purposes.
It would establish funding for women- and minority-owned marijuana businesses, require more research on the drug's public health impact, and maintain federal authority to regulate commercial advertising, similar to existing regulations for tobacco and alcohol.
"If smoking marijuana doesn't hurt anybody else, why shouldn't we allow people to do it and not make it criminal?" Schumer told Vice News Tonight on HBO in a Thursday interview previewing his bill. To drive home that point, Schumer also agreed to sign a bong.
The move is coming on 4/20, the unofficial holiday celebrating marijuana use and culture.
Schumer's support is the latest indicator of the green wave affecting American politics, with growing support across the political spectrum to change the way the federal government sees marijuana.

ICE is staffed largely by professional law enforcement people, like any other LE agency. But they follow orders. If a Democrat becomes president, they will follow those orders too. We may not like the policy, but the uniformed personnel didnt set the policy.
That said, Thomas Holman has got to go.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.