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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#239051: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:11:57 PM

Speak for yourself. There is a difference between proselytizing and explaining ones beliefs in a way that puts a positive spin on it, a difference that I have tried to exemplify here at TVT for years. Some of the atheists around here and I have been debating religious issues for a long time. I think progressive Christianity is due for a political and cultural comeback, frankly.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#239052: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:16:07 PM

[up]

Well, I hope it does. To show that a religion based on love should not be a force for bigotry and intolerance.

edited 16th Apr '18 4:22:20 PM by TheWildWestPyro

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#239053: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:30:54 PM

Also, the concept that religion can only have left-wing attitudes if it also doesn't seek new members seems to be trying to marry two unrelated concepts... or assuming that capital-E Evangelicals have a monopoly on the concept.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#239054: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:35:23 PM

I feel like part of why the Christian Left is less visable than the Christian Right, is that it's always been part of a larger progressive coalition, rather than being a formidible social and political force in it's own right.

edited 16th Apr '18 4:35:42 PM by megaeliz

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#239055: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:37:09 PM

So, how much of a bump do you think Trump's ratings will get for the Syrian air strikes?

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#239056: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:38:50 PM

Hard to say. It might be cancelled out by the fallout from the Cohen raids, and if it does give him a few points, it will be temporary.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#239057: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:49:27 PM

I’d be shocked if he got any, it’s not staying in the news cycle and I don’t see the strikes as super popular.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#239058: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:52:02 PM

Granted it could be because most of the people around me tend to lean left but I haven't heard anything but negativity towards the strike. This thread is one of the few places I've seen trying to rationalize how the strikes could potentially do some good.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#239060: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:57:33 PM

It’s not a left-right thing, I’m one of the more left wing people in the thread and I’m also one of the more pro-strikes people.

It’s an isolationist-globalist thing, from an isolationist perspective the US shouldn’t be doing any strikes and should stay away, from a globalist perspective the US has a responsibility to try and undo some of the damage it’s done to the Middle East and try and enforce some level of international law.

In the end Trump would get a boost from looking presidential, but he couldn’t manage it, even non-Trump fans who agree with the strikes are going to feel that Trump handled them in a shitty way, even if they were legal there’s the basic fact that he kept tweeting about them, you can’t look presidential while tweeting about your missile strikes, it just doesn’t work.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#239061: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:59:46 PM

Which is funny, because the far right have been screaming their opposition to the strikes since they first happened. Everyone around here has been more like, "Okay, now what?"

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#239062: Apr 16th 2018 at 5:02:48 PM

[up]He even lost Alex Jones of all people over the strikes, and it's kind of hilarious.

Whelp, Trump’s now a fraud. Done”

[up][up] He also fails at OPSEC forever, by tweeting about them days before it happened, and presumably let them have more than enough time to evacuate the whole place.

And I do think the support here, has been more nuanced than "I support them because America!" and "Military-Industrial Complex for the win, baby!", or whatever crap you tend to hear on the Right.

edited 16th Apr '18 5:16:18 PM by megaeliz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#239063: Apr 16th 2018 at 5:15:28 PM

Some of those who support the strike on the basis of humanitarianism and enforcing international norms tend to lean left, and it will take more than a single night of bombing to put them into "approving of Trump" range.

Then there's the neocons, who either already support Trump or are Never Trumpers who won't turn their coats just because of this.

He might pick up a handful of independents, and in exchange lose a few of the isolationist/alt-right guys.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#239064: Apr 16th 2018 at 5:47:42 PM

The evangelicals are just mad that Trump revealed how ugly they really are

Do not obey in advance.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#239065: Apr 16th 2018 at 5:55:05 PM

That requires them to acknowledge how ugly they are. Or consider it a bad thing.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#239066: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:35:55 PM

And acknowledging what hypocrites they are for distorting Christianity yet abusing it to justify everything immoral they do.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#239067: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:39:09 PM

And considering it a bad thing

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#239068: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:40:02 PM

The thing I don't understand about evangelicals and Trump is the fact that there is a genuine chance he could be the Anti-Christ. I mean, consider Revelations 13:16-17.

It (the Anti-Christ) compelled everyone - small and great alike, rich and poor, slave and citizen - to be branded on the right hand or on the forehead, and made it illegal for anyone to buy or sell anything unless he had been branded with the name of the beast or with the number of its name.

Branded on the forehead - MAGA hats anyone? Not to mention Trump's stated ambition to stamp his name on everything: (Trump steaks, Trump university, Trump tower...)

I mean sure, I'm taking one passage from the Bible and taking it way out of context. Obviously not a good way to construct a sound theological argument (but certainly in keeping with many on the Christian Right).

I know that some evangelicals would see this as a feature not a bug, as they want the end-times in their lifetime. But I skipped ahead: Revelations 14:11 and 19:20-21 suggests it won't end well for them.

Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#239069: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:47:17 PM

It's rather simple.

They're mad they're being compared to the worst aspects of President Trump. "If you support it you're just like it".

The truth is more like "you support it because you're just like it" and they're seeing it... somewhat, but they're trying to separate themselves from Trump like that. "It is not one of us", etc.

So they could have been on their way to self-reflection, but they stopped midway and then they turned around, put their hands on their ears and began shouting "la la la la but her emails!" thinking they still have the high ground because they're obviously in the right and anyone who says different is the enemy.

Or something like that.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#239070: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:53:26 PM

Although, is Trump an Evangelical himself? Not really sure how much that matters, because the group being discussed does very much align and support him, but out of curiosity.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#239071: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:55:30 PM

Nope, IIRC he's mocked Pence for his strong religious beliefs and his obsession with gays.

Trump's almost certainly an apatheist .

edited 16th Apr '18 6:55:37 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#239072: Apr 16th 2018 at 6:56:34 PM

[up][up] He doesn't identify as one, no.

Honestly, though, Trump has no ideology. I'm not sure if a narcissist is capable of one.

edited 16th Apr '18 6:56:44 PM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#239073: Apr 16th 2018 at 7:11:19 PM

Trump isn’t capable of believing in a higher power, in his mind he is the higher power.

edited 16th Apr '18 7:11:31 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#239074: Apr 16th 2018 at 7:18:21 PM

I believe he's a mainline Protestant of some sort...on paper of course.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#239075: Apr 16th 2018 at 7:39:37 PM

I do remember hearing from some religious conspiracy theorists that the Anti-Christ would appear/try to take over in 2016. I think it was an attempt to solidify their hatred of a particular candidate (like Hillary) or be ready for when Obama tried to keep power.

Also, this post from Dumbing of Age artist David Willis is still relevant a year and half later.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

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