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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238926: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:52:37 AM

[up][up]I think it has to do with the fact that Mueller is very obviously going against Trump so that makes his Republican affiliation less obvious and makes people more likely to lionize him.

Unlike Comey I think that's completely warranted.

In-general I have noticed an unsettling increase in militancy post-Trump victory, it just electrified some people in the wrong way.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:53:02 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238927: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:53:33 AM

[up][up]That is also fair. Which is why I don't comment on the investigation, or Mueller himself, very much.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:54:02 AM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238928: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:54:05 AM

Mueller is a public servant, if he's half as honest as everyone (left and right) thinks he is, he leaves his politics at the door. And considering this is the guy who quit being a defense attorney because he couldn't bring himself to defend clients that he thought were guilty...

I do find it weird how senior level bureaucrats in the US are commonly registered to a party, whereas in some other countries maintaining any sort of connection to a party is discouraged for anyone in middle management or above. But that's mostly a product of party registration in the US system, more than anything else.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:54:41 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#238929: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:54:32 AM

That’s fair, his record is good, allow me to reconsider then, I trust Mueller a lot less than I would otherwise, because he’s a Republican, his record (particularly on this case) speaks well of him, but goddamm does his status as a Republican make me trust him an awful lot less than I would if he was an independent.
The difference here is that Mueller is not a politician. He does not have to worry about meeting arbitrary purity tests or risk being primaried out from the right. He does not have to worry about toeing the party line or risk being cut off from the national GOP apparatus. He does not have to worry about keeping his voter base happy, because he doesn't have any voters.

He has a lot more independence than elected officials do.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238930: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:54:53 AM

[up][up] [nja]

Attacking Robert Mueller's integrity. Really?

Robert Mueller is so upright and by the book, that he hated private practice because he can't defend guilty people, and practically begged to come back to the FBI, even for a much lower pay. In a speech, he once said the reason that he liked his job as FBI Director so much, is that it "provides all the benefits of public service, without the politics."

He's utterly apolitical, and couldn't care less if you were a Democrat or Republican. All he cares about is if you were breaking the law.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:57:31 AM by megaeliz

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#238931: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:00:08 AM

I don’t know how much I’d trust Mueller on a number of issues but he is an excellent special counsel who I doubt is overly willing to cover for crimes in the level of colluding with a foreign power to steal the election.

His actions with Manafort and Cohen are proof of this.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:00:35 AM by Lightysnake

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238932: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:02:48 AM

[up] I think the best endorsement you can get of him, is that when Obama asked him to stay an extra two years as FBI Director, it was confirmed with a unanimous vote in both houses.

From a speech he gave to a graduating class

We move to a moment to what is the second Tennant, the Rule of Law.

It is, in my mind, what the archway inscription describes as the light of truth.

Every FBI employee takes an oath promising to uphold the rule of law, and the United States Constitution. And for us these are are not mere words, they set the expectation for our behavior in the bureau, the standard for the work that we do.

For the American people to respect the Bureau, we must be objective and percieved as objective, we must be fair and be perceived as fair. And it also means that we must be apolitical.

And that is one of the great things about my particular job. It allows me the benefits of public service, but without the politics.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:12:33 AM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238933: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:11:26 AM

[up]X4 Everyone is subject to political pressures, Comey is proof of that, he was subject to the pressures as director of the FBI even though he couldn’t be primaried from that position. Not being a politican doesn’t mean one isn’t a political actor.

Mueller hasn’t been subject to pressures in the same way, he only has his own reputation to worry about and not that of the entire FBI, he has one job to do (investigate relevant wrongdoing) and not a whole host (Comey had a lot of competing priorities as FBI Director) and he has someone providing political cover for him (Rosenstein).

So far everything we know suggests that Mueller is more moral that Comey, values justice more and just strait up can’t stand working with/for people he knows to be immoral, so I think when he does face the same kind of test that Comey did he will pass, but it hasn’t happened yet.

Rosenstein is the only person to be tested and pass as I see it, because we know he’s facing political pressure and he’s refused to buckle, but if he gets fired all that pressure will fall on Mueller and I just can’t say I’m certain that he’ll do the right thing, on balance I think he will, but I’m not 100% sure.

[up] The speech is great and speaks well of him, unanimous approval from Congress realy depends on ones opinion of congress, there are people in the US congress whose aproval one shouldn’t want.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:21:57 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238934: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:20:42 AM

[up] From a 2007 Los Angeles Times Article:

In March 2004, Comey, then deputy attorney general, was summoned to the hospital bed of his boss, Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft.

Ashcroft, weak from gallbladder surgery, was under pressure from White House officials Alberto Gonzales and Andrew Card to sign papers reauthorizing the domestic surveillance program secretly launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Ashcroft's wife was distraught about the visit from the White House counsel and chief of staff, according to testimony Comey later gave to a Senate committee.

She called Comey to stop the uninvited visitors. Just the previous week, her husband had agreed not to reinstate the program.

Comey called in help, asking Mueller, then the FBI director, and several top aides to meet him at the hospital.

It was the start of a battle between the Justice Department and the White House. According to Comey, the White House renewed the program the next day without his approval. Since the White House had ignored the department's legal advice, Comey, Mueller and several other officials made plans to resign. It was only when President George W. Bush agreed to listen to Comey and Mueller and restructure the program did resignation plans go away.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:23:37 AM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238935: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:25:23 AM

That’s a very different kettle of fish to what we’re dealing with today, it also means that Mueller signed off on the domestic spying program that existed after that point, which isn’t exactly something that has widespread aproval from people.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238936: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:27:26 AM

I don't think anyone is attacking Muller's personal integrity. He's certainly a dedicated public servant and has acted with competence and integrity throughout a long career. Nobody is infallible, but he certainly seems like a decent guy. He headed up the FBI during a time it made some very questionable moves, but like I said nobody is infallible.

The thing is, it's not just about him. When it comes down to it, "the investigation" is a huge puzzle with lots of moving pieces and outside factors. To say it's massively complex is an understatement. It could go any one of a dozen ways, and lionizing Muller as a way to prove its legitimacy or efficacy doesn't do much.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:29:23 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238937: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:27:35 AM

[up][up] This is a better description

Both Mueller and Comey were completely willing to resign over this, and that was with a Republican President.

[down] Agreed

edited 15th Apr '18 10:38:25 AM by megaeliz

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238938: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:28:38 AM

There's no need to put Mueller on a pedestal, just acknowledge that for right now we have no reason to doubt he's trustworthy in this position, and seemingly many to believe he is.

If it turns out that some shady stuff happens it'll be disappointing, but not the end of the world. But I don't think you should go in assuming anything like that until given an actual reason to. And even at this point, I don't think "He's a registered Republican" is enough of a reason to, at least not for the situation.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238939: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:34:03 AM

[up]My thoughts exactly.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238941: Apr 15th 2018 at 10:57:13 AM

Quick Syria update

France declassified a report on Saturday laying out evidence that officials said proves that a chemical attack in Syria last week was carried out by the government of President Bashar Assad.

The report claims that several chemical strikes were carried out in the Damascus suburb of Douma on April 7, and that symptoms experienced by the victims - skin burns, suffocation and other breathing difficulties, among other markers - were consistent with the effects of chlorine gas.

"Reliable intelligence indicates that Syrian military officials have coordinated what appears to be the use of chemical weapons containing chlorine on Douma, on April 7," the report, released by the French Foreign Ministry, reads.

The report also states that the Syrian government has carried out a number of chemical weapons strikes since April 4, 2017 - the same day a chemical attack in Syria's northern Idlib province left more than 80 civilians dead.

The U.S. issued an assessment on Friday night pointing to the Syrian government's role in the alleged chemical attacks in Douma.

That report cites "multiple media sources, the reported symptoms experienced by victims, videos and images showing two assessed barrel bombs from the attack, and reliable information indicating coordination between Syrian military officials before the attack."

The U.S. issued an assessment on Friday night pointing to the Syrian government's role in the alleged chemical attacks in Douma.

That report cites "multiple media sources, the reported symptoms experienced by victims, videos and images showing two assessed barrel bombs from the attack, and reliable information indicating coordination between Syrian military officials before the attack."

The assessment also suggests that the Syrian government not only used chlorine in the attack on Douma, but that reported symptoms were also consistent with exposure to sarin, a deadly nerve agent.

The French and U.S. assessments came hours after leaders in Washington, Paris and London authorized "precision strikes" on targets in Syria believed to be associated with the country's chemical weapons arsenal.

So we know for sure that they used Chlorine, and there is evidence that they may have also used Sarin, as well.

edited 15th Apr '18 10:59:45 AM by megaeliz

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#238942: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:01:10 AM

[up]

Well, it seems that the USA has learned its lesson from Irak on not creating false flag operations, though I doubt that Russia will double down, maybe China will retract support but it could as well stay.

edited 15th Apr '18 11:02:27 AM by raziel365

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#238943: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:10:31 AM

[up][up][up] Well, I suppose it's not like he's got anything to lose now.

That said, holy hell is that article biased. The headline is literally "Paul Ryan Promises To Commit Treason If Senate Passes Bill To Protect Mueller"

edited 15th Apr '18 11:13:38 AM by sgamer82

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238944: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:19:13 AM

[up][up] Outside of Russian media there was never any real doubt Syria’s been using chemicals.

edited 15th Apr '18 11:19:29 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238945: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:34:21 AM

the thread is not a hive mind and even one of its members is skeptical of Mueller does not mean that the rest of us have to be.
Is that referring to me? Because I'm less skeptical of mueller himself, than of the idea that his investigation is going to lead to (righteously deserved) treason charges against Trump, rather than yet another big fat Republican nothingburger.
So far everything we know suggests that Mueller is more moral that Comey, values justice more and just strait up can’t stand working with/for people he knows to be immoral, so I think when he does face the same kind of test that Comey did he will pass, but it hasn’t happened yet.
I saw an editorial today, saying the only reason Comey has a book coming out is to feed his own ego. It also said that feeding his ego was the reason he made the news announcement about Hillary right before the election.
Paul Ryan refuses to allow a vote on a bill to protect Special Counsel Robert Mueller, even if it passes the Senate
You'd think, now that he's announced his resignation, he'd be able to un-glue his mouth from Trump's ass.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238946: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:35:59 AM

Barbara Bush is in failing health, with congestive heart failure and lung problems.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/15/politics/barbara-bush-health/index.html

Sounds like she's getting palliative care at home. Here's hoping that Cheeto shows some decency or at least silence when she and/or her husband do pass on.

edited 15th Apr '18 11:36:17 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238947: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:38:40 AM

It sounds like we could be seeing the beginning of a Russian retaliation. Syrian irregulars reportedly backed by Russian mercenaries are making another push across the Euphrates in the same area where US forces killed several hundred Russian mercenaries last month.

They should have sent a poet.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#238948: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:46:59 AM

I don't particularly like or trust Comey; he proved himself either a fool with delusions of fairness, a fool with delusions of kingmaking, a short-sighted career grabber, a useful patsy, or a knowing accomplice with the But Her Emails story, and I don't think his standing up to Trump necessarily makes him a better person, especially now that he's essentially powerless aside from tweaking Trump's temper (which you can also do as a porn star or a high school student).

That said, he's fighting, and that's useful. I'm willing to extend him and his book deal the benefit of the doubt as long as his interference is targeted at Trump.

It's been fun.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238949: Apr 15th 2018 at 11:50:34 AM

[up][up][up][up] It will certainly do something, although Trump himself might be more likely to go down on the New York stuff.

Remember, he has 19 indictments already, and someone from "Mueller, She Wrote" mentioned that they've heard that he has more sealed indictments in waiting.

edited 15th Apr '18 12:07:13 PM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238950: Apr 15th 2018 at 12:11:00 PM

The serious test of Mueller is likely to come if Trump fires Rosenstein and appoints someone else with instructions for them to hamper Mueller.

In that case Mueller has 4 likely options:

  • Resign stating that his investigation is being blocked.
  • Keep on working and doing his best despite interference.
  • Indict Rosenstein's replacement for obstruction of justice for their interference with him.
  • Indict Trump for obstruction of justice for firing Rosenstein and replacing him with someone designed to hamper the investigation.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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