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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238901: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:12:20 AM

Alternatively: • Progressive: Rock the boat! • Conservative: Don't rock the boat, baby. • Regressive: Unrock the boat! • Extremist: [[stirke:Don't]] tip the boat over!
I hate you for this. Bravo, good sir. Bravo.

So on the Syrian front, apparently the Russian troll farms were denying there would be a chemical attack before the attack happened. Does that mean we can count Russia as an active part of chemical warfare against civilians? Full article text 

Weeks before the world saw the bodies of men, women, and children dead from an apparent Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military was already spreading bizarre conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum have been a staple of official discourse whenever Moscow wants to cover up bad behavior by its allies in Damascus. When the Assad regime used sarin nerve agents on the town of Khan Sheikhoun in 2017, Russian officials accused Syrian first responders—a group known as the White Helmets—of fabricating the attacks—saying it was impossible to explain otherwise how the group “managed to work for such a long period of time and remain alive without gas masks and special protection equipment” while documenting the attack.

Russia’s UN Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia has dredged up the same talking points now to label Douma a “pretext” that was “eagerly provided by the White Helmets’ provocateurs.” But this time, the propaganda campaign got a head start—and they’ve even tried to remix old children’s plays and spy novels to make their point.

“What’s perhaps interesting in this one is the way that Russian officialdom started building the narrative on a false flag a month ago,” Ben Nimmo, a researcher at Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab who studies disinformation campaigns, told The Daily Beast. “There’s a measure of foresight and forethought there which is quite interesting.”

Beginning in early March, Russia’s ministry of defense began to claim that it had picked up intelligence about “provocations” planned by Islamist militant groups outside Damascus designed “to accuse government troops of using chemical weapons in the Eastern Ghouta against civilians.” Defense ministry officials later elaborated that the conspiracy to mount false-flag chemical attacks involved a whole cast of characters ranging from U.S. special operations forces operating in the Syrian desert to Free Syrian Army members in the south of the country to al Qaeda members in Idlib Province.

The anticipatory claims about rebel chemical weapons provocations coincided with mounting frustration in the Trump administration over the Assad regime’s continued use of chlorine gas attacks in and around East Ghouta. Reports of Syrian military chemical attacks died down in the months after the Trump administration struck a Syrian air base in retaliation for the sarin attack on Khan Sheikhoun, but began to increase as the Assad regime pressed an operation to take back the northeastern suburbs occupied by rebels.

Russia’s announcement of the false flag conspiracy followed a late February meeting by the Trump administration to consider a potential military response to Syria’s ongoing chemical weapons use, according to The Washington Post. Russian diplomats have used the conspiracies floated in March to try and validate their claims of a false flag, but Moscow still can’t seem to get its story straight about whether the conspiracy raised in March involved a fake chemical attack or a real one. The March claims all involved chemical weapons being used by rebels. Russia’s UN ambassador has since argued that there “were no chemical substances found on the ground, no dead bodies found, no poisoned people in the hospitals.”

In the wake of the attack, pro-Russian, pro-Assad and general conspiracy enthusiast social media trolls have joined the fray to make Moscow’s case—with a little help from Russian state media. “[Trump] said let’s pull out of Syria, as a deflection, So that a week later he can declare war,” cried the famously pro-Assad troll Partisangirl. “He knew a chemical false flag was planned.”

Outlets like Sputnik have amplified spy-novel stories about several British commandos captured near the scene of the attack in Douma supposedly operating on behalf of an international Super Friends alliance of the U.S., Israel, Jordan, and the U.K. aiming to thwart the recapture of rebel-held territory.

“Therefore, the US has ordered Jaysh al-Islam, Faylaq al-Rahman and other terrorist groups to allow the evacuation of civilians from Eastern Ghouta to army-held regions in a bid to provide the ground for these foreign agents to also leave Ghouta in disguise and enable the Turkish intelligence service to send them to specified regions in At-Tanf and northern Syria,” according to the intricate claim.

Social-media trolls have also spun their own artisanal disinformation since the Douma incident, taking footage of a 2013 children’s play about chemical weapons put on for kids in East Ghouta and editing the video to claim that civilians in rebel-held areas are teaching children to fake chemical weapons attacks. The play, put on by volunteers shortly after the 2013 sarin attack in East Ghouta, had local children lying on the ground acting out the part of poisoning victims as assembled kids watched and applauded. Twitter trolls grabbed the footage from You Tube, edited it down and circulated it blaring “LET'S PLAY FAKE SYRIAN CHEMICAL ATTACK children's party!”

By and large, though, social media propaganda in the wake of the alleged Douma chemical attack has closely resembled that seen after the Khan Sheikhoun nerve gas attack. “The main things we’ve been seeing are attacks on the White helmets, calling them terrorists and calling it a false flag,” Nimmo said. “What we’ve seen this time around are attacks on the White Helmets, calling them terrorists and calling it a false flag.”

The conspiracy theories about the White Helmets and Douma piggyback on a well-developed disinformation infrastructure aimed at discrediting the civil defense group. A study released by the Syria Campaign, a non-governmental human rights organization, and carried out by the social media analysis firm Graphika looked at tweets by 2.65 million accounts discussing the White Helmets between June 2016 and October 2017 and found a “a solid indication of a coordinated disinformation campaign” against the group.

Discussions focused on a series of common themes accusing White Helmets volunteers of being members of al-Qaeda and staging the deaths of civilians in attacks following Russian bombings or the Syrian military’s use of chemical weapons.

“[Chemical weapons] used by #Al Qaeda not by #Assad #Khansheikun was falseflag of alqaeda linked fake aid organisation #whitehelmets,” cried one cluster of tweets, pushed out at the same time by accounts ostensibly located on different continents.

The volume of social media activity, according to the report, allowed conspiracy-theorist critics of Syrian Civil Defense to dominate discussions of the group on social media with “some of the most connected and influential accounts in Twitter conversations about the White Helmets are the same individuals targeting the White Helmets with false accusations and violent threats.”

On the home front, just how pissed at Sessions is Trump? Well, he just supported a law to protect the marijuana industry and limit federal prosecution in pot-legal states. Full article text 

DENVER — President Donald Trump has promised to support legislation protecting the marijuana industry in states that have legalized the drug, a move that could lift a threat to the industry made by the U.S. attorney general just three months ago.

Sen. Cory Gardner , R-Colo., said Friday that Trump made the pledge to him in a Wednesday night conversation. Gardner has been pushing to reverse a decision made by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in January that removed prohibitions that kept federal prosecutors from pursuing cases against people who were following pot laws in states such as Colorado that have legalized the drug. Marijuana has been fully legalized in eight states, and 24 states allow some form of marijuana use.

“President Trump has assured me that he will support a federalism-based legislative solution to fix this states’ rights issue once and for all,” Gardner said in a statement.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Gardner’s account was accurate and the president supported states’ rights in the matter.

Gardner hopes to introduce bipartisan legislation keeping the federal government from interfering in state marijuana markets. During the campaign, Trump said states should be able to chart their own course on marijuana. But Trump has also railed at the dangers of drug-related crime and suggested recreational marijuana should not be permitted.

When Trump selected Sessions, a former federal prosecutor and U.S. senator from Alabama, as his attorney general, marijuana supporters girded themselves for a crackdown. But Gardner said Sessions had promised him he’d do nothing to interfere with Colorado’s robust marijuana market.

Gardner said he was blindsided when Sessions made his announcement in January regarding pot prosecutions.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238902: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:13:36 AM

[up][up][up] Comey has been a loyal public servant for much of his career. There's no way he would have been involved in anything like that.

And anyway, there's already been enough actual conspiring without us adding our conspiracy theories to the mix.

edited 15th Apr '18 7:16:20 AM by megaeliz

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#238903: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:21:27 AM

[up][up] Oh boy, I don't like loud sounds, I guess that I am a conservative now

Watch me destroying my country
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238904: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:34:01 AM

[up][up] I think you’re right, the most likely explenation is that he’s a selfish shit, that he wanted to save his own hide from congress and sent the memo thinking Hillary would still win and that she’d understand that he did it so as to maintain his positon and the reputation of the FBI (which would have gone down the drain if he’d not sent the memo, the info has leaked (which it would have) and he’d then had to come out and fire half the New York office for abusing their positions as FBI agents to try and rig a presidential election).

I still want the FBI agents who are threatening to leak the info (that they’d found some emails connected to Hillary on Weiner’s PC) investigated, as while yeah Comey almost certainly isn’t some deep cover Russian agent I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that some of the New York FBI office were compromised.

God I hope the next democrat learns from this, appointing Comey was a mistake on Obama’s part, we need to learn that Republicans can never be trusted, push come to shove they will pretty much always put personal profit and party interest ahead of national security, just like Comey did.

edited 15th Apr '18 7:34:19 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238905: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:39:51 AM

[up][up]Nah, sounds like you are just a moderate. "Rock the boat, but be careful about it and do it gradually."

edited 15th Apr '18 7:48:39 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#238906: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:47:22 AM

Libertarian: boats are the work of big government we'd rather doggy paddle

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#238907: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:48:10 AM

[up][up]

[awesome], my type of thinking.

In other news, China has condemned the attack in Syria as well as Iran, it's likely that whatever Russia does, they are going to support it.

edited 15th Apr '18 7:48:19 AM by raziel365

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#238908: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:11:01 AM

[up]x4 And now you're fearmongering.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238909: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:15:31 AM

[up] Agreed.

We're looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. He acted on what he thought was the best thing to do at the time, and had no way of seeing what would happen as a result of that.

edited 15th Apr '18 8:17:38 AM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238910: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:37:55 AM

[up][up] I fail to see how, care to explain.

[up] Oh please, we here knew at the time that the memo made the chance of Trump winning much greater, Comey knew more than any of us what that would mean for the US and the world, but he did it anyway Comey made a gamble, a gamble with the fate of the US, the US and the world lost that gamble, he’s got a book deal out of it.

He did do what he thought as best, for himself and the FBI, not what was best for the US and the world.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#238911: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:56:42 AM

Yeah, I'm getting tired of Comey's puerile moral posturing when he did more than almost anyone else to put Trump in office, and for all his simpering about what a hard position he was in, he concealed the fact there was an investigation into Treason for Russian collusion.

And what made him fucking editorialize in July about how 'careless' Clinton was? What kind of BS was that one?

edited 15th Apr '18 8:57:18 AM by Lightysnake

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238912: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:05:13 AM

As someone who never stopped being mad at Comey there's a Vox article that is extremely apropos to the current discussion.

Why James Comey isn’t the hero you think he is

I think people generally need to get over the idea that just because someone opposes Trump that means they must be a good person or worthy of commendation, it's just too simplistic and reductionist.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:06:13 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#238913: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:16:48 AM

It's fearmongering to say that anyone ever associated with the Republican party is completely incapable of being trusted.

And if that is the case, we're screwed with this special investigation.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238914: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:20:42 AM

I don’t think they can be trusted, a few of them (Muller and Rosenstein being the only two I can name) will do the right thing in particular situations (same as Mc Cain on healthcare and other senators in certain situations), but that doesn’t mean they can be trusted, I don’t trust Muller or Rosenstein, in the end they’re Republicans, and members of the Republican Party have a history of putting other loyalties above loyalty to the country.

It’s not about ever being associated with the Republican Party, but right now the only reasons to be a Republicans are because you are ignorant, because you value either yrouself or your organisation over the country, or because you don’t agree with it and are trying to reform it from the inside.

I don’t believe that there are very many of the third kind out there, Comey proved that.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:22:30 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238915: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:27:56 AM

[up]While I don't think that your position is fearmongering (it's not really trying to incite panic) I think you're being myopic, yes Republican officials should not be trusted but I see no reason to distrust Mueller just for his party affiliation and every reason to trust him due to his extensive record as a civil servant.

We should absolutely see the Republican party as an enemy but I think you're taking it a little too far.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#238916: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:28:48 AM

Is ironic how this very thread tried to sell Mueller as the Token Good Teammate of the Republicans.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:33:00 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238917: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:29:17 AM

[up]Um what? When did that happen?

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#238919: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:32:43 AM

[up] Autocorrector sucks in Cellphone.Thanks you

edited 15th Apr '18 9:33:10 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238920: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:35:38 AM

That makes more sense.

And no that's not ironic, the thread is not a hive mind and even one of its members is skeptical of Mueller does not mean that the rest of us have to be.

Personally I have complete trust in Mueller. As someone who actually supports law and order as something more than a vapid dogwhistle he's exactly the kind of person that I admire.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:37:09 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238921: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:37:08 AM

I see no reason to distrust Mueller just for his party affiliation and every reason to trust him due to his extensive record as a civil servant.

That’s fair, his record is good, allow me to reconsider then, I trust Mueller a lot less than I would otherwise, because he’s a Republican, his record (particularly on this case) speaks well of him, but goddamm does his status as a Republican make me trust him an awful lot less than I would if he was an independent.

All evidence suggests that he’s a good person in spite of being a Republican, but dammit if that doesn’t make me weary, it’s a mark against him for me.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:38:37 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238922: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:38:19 AM

[up]I think that's fair, but keep in mind that he's not a modern Republican. He's from a time when the Republican party was not so transparently awful and when decent people could still associate with them.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238923: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:41:36 AM

Yeah I can understand that, I also personal understand the position of being one of the more sane voices in a party that those around you say has gone off the rails, that you want to reform and make sane.

Just makes me bloody nervous even if I can understand not just why he would have joined the Republican Party but also why he’d stay.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238924: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:45:09 AM

I do have to have admit, I've been a bit surprised by how few people in this thread haven't been constantly expressing doubt or going "Mueller's just waiting for a way to somehow get Trump off the hook" or something.

To be frank, it actually unsettles me a bit how much certain people here remind me of the alt-right, with their rhetoric of destroying their enemies. Silasw isn't one of them, but a few tropers come to mind.

edited 15th Apr '18 9:46:16 AM by LSBK

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238925: Apr 15th 2018 at 9:52:10 AM

[up] Liberals aren’t incapable of the same “us vs. them” rhetoric that fuels the right.

Personally, I think the Muller-worship is a case of counting eggs before they’re hatched. We don’t know which way the investigation will go, and it’s quite possible it won’t go the way people are hoping it’ll go. Muller is an old-school Republican but by no means infallible. We shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves here.

They should have sent a poet.

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