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raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#238876: Apr 14th 2018 at 7:37:53 PM

Maybe as a cautionary tale to not polarize yourselves into thinking that all that comes from the Right is evil and all that comes from the Left is good, you are better of trying to find balance and compromise.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#238877: Apr 14th 2018 at 7:49:02 PM

And if you want to tie into US politics, I have been said a lot in this thread how some thing that happen in my country remind me of US, specially a incompetent strongman in power, try to tie the country into them personaly and so own.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#238878: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:26:29 PM

Conservatism includes a lot of bigotry, naturally. When you see the world as a zero sum arena in which antagonistic communities vie for access to resources, thats going to lend itself to a certain degree of tribalism, as well as a belief that authority figures exist to keep us safe from dangerous outsiders. But to regard that world view as unethical requires that you also regard it as objectively incorrect. Conservatives do not regard it that way, which is why they are conservatives.

For US conservatives, add in a belief that the individual who does the work should keep the pay, that God and not the government deserves our highest loyalty, and that technical experts use their theories and terminology to conceal their self interest.

The billionaires club has been selling the line that the Democratic party takes tax dollars away from white working class people and gives them to minorities in order to bribe them for their votes for two generations now, and that's where a lot of alt-right views derived from.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#238879: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:43:36 PM

[up]

As someone that comes from a country that has suffered a lot both from US meddling and from mining companies bribing to get away with whatever they did in the places they worked, the idea of an antagonist community that tries to leech resources from others is not entirely false, heck, it's one of the criticism that has been leveled to the USA, that their interventions in the Middle East where motivated mostly to secure oil at prices they found desirable. Also, we have to understand that the contrast between tribalism and modernism is not one of black and white entirely, both have their things, and both are needed to an extent to find a good path.

What you say about the US conservatists is not without merit, and it's ironic in a manner that their lack of loyalty to the government is something that they critize the left of doing.

As for the BS that the billionaires has been selling to the poor whites, I need to ask for clarification about something: Has the Democratic party been just as invested in helping the urban minorities as well as the rural poor? Because if the narrative of the Democrats has shifted to focus more in favour of the minorities than in the rural poor, that might be the reason why Trump is president now.

edited 14th Apr '18 8:45:52 PM by raziel365

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238880: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:47:56 PM

As for the BS that the billionaires has been selling to the poor whites, I need to ask for clarification about something: Has the Democratic party been just as invested in helping the urban minorities as well as the rural poor? Because if the narrative of the Democrats has shifted to focus more in favour of the minorities than in the rural poor, that might be the reason why Trump is president now.
No it's almost entirely a dog whistle that actually means "they cared about minority rights and stopped supporting white supremacy" things like the Consumer Protection Bureau or various industrial regulation are all things that help poor whites alongside minorities.

That narrative is almost entirely supported by white supremacists and people who want to appeal to them.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238881: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:48:16 PM

I can't imagine the CIA is happy right now.

Trump pardoned Scooter Libby yesterday, who who ousted an undercover CIA agent during the Bush Administration, and was convicted of Obstruction of Justice and perjury.

A bit more background

The saga that led up to Libby's conviction began in 2003 when Joseph Wilson, a former diplomat, wrote a New York Times op-ed column, contending that Cheney had deliberately ignored evidence showing that Iraq was not seeking to acquire material needed to build nuclear weapons.

Wilson's claim, undercutting the justification for waging war against Iraq, was based on material he gathered in Niger for the CIA.

To undercut Wilson's claim, administration officials told reporters that he had been sent on the fact-finding mission at the behest of his wife, Valerie Plame, who worked at the CIA.

Publication of that leak blew her cover, a potential federal crime. Libby was not charged with disclosing a CIA officer's identity, however. Nor was the man who actually did blow Plame's cover, former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. But Armitage readily admitted his involvement to prosecutors and a grand jury.

Libby, however, was convicted on four counts of obstruction of justice, lying to the FBI and lying to the grand jury. He maintained that the differences between his testimony and others was just a matter of a different recollection of events.

Does he want to make the Intelligence Community hate his guts?

edited 14th Apr '18 9:18:19 PM by megaeliz

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#238882: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:17:59 PM

And in the latest "...WTF?!" news, Matt Bevin, after having his Veto overridden by the Kentucky legislature, claimed that kids were abused because teachers were on strike.

"As surely as we're having this conversation, children were harmed - some physically, some sexually, some were introduced to drugs for the first time because they were vulnerable and left alone. It's offensive, really. If you want to write a story, that's the kind of thing you should talk about."

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Imca (Veteran)
#238883: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:22:14 PM

[up] That was used the a couple pages back to point out there can be reasonable conservitives too.

With one of the Bush era republicians calling that guy out as disgusting, saying the teachers probaly worked harder then he ever has, and that they deserved that raise.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#238884: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:34:39 PM

[up][up][up]You know who else was hated by their intelligence organizations? Hitler!!

Leviticus 19:34
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#238885: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:43:29 PM

[up]

Meanwhile the Imperial Japanese secret service discovered it was way more fun turning Manchuria into their drug and prostitution empire instead of, y'know, doing normal intelligence work.

Didn't turn out too well for them. Or the military for that matter.

edited 14th Apr '18 9:43:42 PM by TheWildWestPyro

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#238886: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:56:23 PM

Woah. Woah. Woah. WOAH there.

This isn't the History or Military Thread, so I'm going to cut it short, but while the Japanese definitely suffered in technology-based SIGINT (hence why their codes were easily broken) they definitely were at the top of their game at HUMINT what with the excellent "Asia for Asians" campaign providing them a plethora of fifth columnists in every single foreign colony that they annexed. The initial successes against the Western powers would not have been possible without numerous locals acting as guides and scouts spying on the defenses of Malaya and the Indonesia for instance.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#238887: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:58:20 PM

Why are we suddenly rehashing WWII military intelligence?

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#238888: Apr 14th 2018 at 10:08:21 PM

[up][up]

Thanks - didn't know that before. Learned something new today that's also going on the Second Sino-Japanese war page.

Anyway, back on topic with this thread: Pentagon declares Syria strike successful.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#238889: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:05:11 AM

Actually it's very hard to imagine that. Since Clinton was not to the right of Sanders. As we have been over many, many times in this thread. Clinton was to the left of Sanders on any number of social issues.

And that's implicitly covered in "parties evolved in different ways over the last 30 years" comment in my second paragraph; the changes over that hypothetical 30 year period include marginalizing racial dogwhistles, marginalizing predatory sexual behavior, fully accepting abortion as the law of the land, and having the NRA be a sane organization that accepts that some restriction on guns are compatible with the Second Amendment.

(I'm aware 30 years might not be a long enough time period; given Nixon/Reagan it might need to be more like 50-60 years. I'm also aware that even with the above changes, there are some issues where Sanders is right of Hillary. I'm also aware that the above scenario DIDN'T happen in real life.)

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#238890: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:58:33 AM

@ 238801 Kazuya Prota: I could see that happening if, for whatever reason, Nixon hadn't adopted the Southern Strategy and the Thurmond/Wallace branch of the Democrats had split off into their own long term party.

edited 15th Apr '18 4:59:43 AM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238891: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:17:39 AM

Trump is on a twitter rampage today.

Unbelievably, James Comey states that Polls, where Crooked Hillary was leading, were a factor in the handling (stupidly) of the Clinton Email probe. In other words, he was making decisions based on the fact that he thought she was going to win, and he wanted a job. Slimeball!

The big questions in Comey’s badly reviewed book aren’t answered like, how come he gave up Classified Information (jail), why did he lie to Congress (jail), why did the DNC refuse to give Server to the FBI (why didn’t they TAKE it), why the phony memos, Mc Cabe’s $700,000 & more?

Comey throws AG Lynch “under the bus!” Why can’t we all find out what happened on the tarmac in the back of the plane with Wild Bill and Lynch? Was she promised a Supreme Court seat, or AG, in order to lay off Hillary. No golf and grandkids talk (give us all a break)!

The Syrian raid was so perfectly carried out, with such precision, that the only way the Fake News Media could demean was by my use of the term “Mission Accomplished.” I knew they would seize on this but felt it is such a great Military term, it should be brought back. Use often!

I never asked Comey for Personal Loyalty. I hardly even knew this guy. Just another of his many lies. His “memos” are self serving and FAKE!

Slippery James Comey, a man who always ends up badly and out of whack (he is not smart!), will go down as the WORST FBI Director in history, by far!

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#238892: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:18:54 AM

Someone please give Trump a phone where all the letters are randomised.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238893: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:25:17 AM

Comey and his publisher are laughing all the way to the bank.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Coleman Since: May, 2016
#238894: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:28:17 AM

So what good is all of this bickering do? Pft what book?

edited 15th Apr '18 6:33:37 AM by Coleman

Hi
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#238895: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:31:47 AM

It gives Comey's book publicity.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238897: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:36:56 AM

Does Comey actually make mention of polls in his book? Because holy shit if he admitted to that, I’m still angry at him for his treatment of Hillary but that just makes him an idiot, thinking he could throw her under the bus for his own career and not realising that he was playing dice with the nation’s fate.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238898: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:55:13 AM

His explanation was that he figured the full story should come out before she was elected (and it was absolutely reasonable to believe that her election was a possibility, probably the most likely one), otherwise it would come out later and cost her a crapton of legitimacy. I do see where he is coming from, though the fact that the investigation of the other campaign was kept private is very suspect to say the least.

If he is telling the truth, Obama (after the election) personally told him that he did the right thing, and this was in private and Obama had nothing to lose by tearing into him.

The way the headlines are written though, it does look bad and helps reinforce Trump's deep state bullshit.

edited 15th Apr '18 6:57:47 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#238899: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:02:13 AM

Are we talking about the existence of the investigation being revealed (okay fair enough I guess) or the bullshit last minute memo saying they’d found extra evidence against Hillary when they hadn’t?

Because I can understand the first, but there’s no excuse for the second, if we lived in a just world Comey would be in jail for abusing his positon as director of the FBI to rig a presidential election.

Here’s the thing, Trump isn’t wrong about their being a level of deep state, the thing is what does exist was working to get him elected, the director of the FBI, the senate majority leader, the New York FBI office, the major news organisations and more all acted improperly (and in some cases in violation of the law) to get him elected. Hell even Obama on some level, by refusing to properly confront the republicans and the Russians, he should have not just outed that Trump was being investigated by possibly a special prosecutor to investigate Mc Connell for possible collusion with the Russian government for when he refused to sign of on revealing that Trump was being investigated.

I’m still not totally willing to rule out the possibility of both Mc Connell and Comey being part of some weird ass 4D Russian chess game, it’s absurd and almost certainly not true, but dammit if this shit hasn’t got me paranoid.

edited 15th Apr '18 7:06:48 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#238900: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:10:33 AM

What makes you so certain that someone hasn't already given him that kind of phone?

Pure autocorrect would come out as Word Salad. Sadly, Trump is slightly above that level. tongue


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