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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#238476: Apr 12th 2018 at 11:14:08 AM

But the rift between the Bannonites and Trumpeters was at least something.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#238477: Apr 12th 2018 at 11:16:23 AM

I remember my mom having a similar "So what?" towards the Bill Clinton sex scandals. Though now, older and (hopefully) wiser, I wonder if Clinton's scandals has a similar problem of the cover ups crossing lines of legality.

Can anyone confirm or deny that? I know it's come up once or twice, but I can't remember if this angle ever came up.

I think Broderick (who Clinton was involved with while an Arkansas politician before he rose to national prominence) hinted that there had been attempts to make sure she would stay quiet, but keep in mind that I'm no expert on the matter, and I do remember that for reasons I can't recall Broderick's story was considered at rather dubious at the time. I don't know if the events of the past 20+ years would lead us to be more likely to believe Broderick instead of assuming the worst about her though.

Yeah, Hillary was even a Goldwater Girl

And for perspective, Clinton had just turned 17 when that election happened. Going to college made her reassess a lot of things. Yet certain fringe people still like to use that as proof that Clinton is a "Closet Conservative" who didn't deserve their vote because she wouldn't be progressive enough.

I hope at 70 they still have to eat shit for what they did at 17 too.

Steve Bannon is working with White House aides and Congressional allies on a plan to cripple Robert Mueller's probe. The plan involves firing Rod Rosenstein, refusing to cooperate with Mueller's team, and having Trump assert executive privilege "retroactively" in order to argue that Mueller's interviews with White House officials over the past year should now be null and void.

That... would be an immediate Constitutional Crisis, no need to wait until a possible impeachment or post-presidential criminal charges or whatnot. It would be such an Imperial act that it might actually cause the biggest backlash in almost a century against the expansion of presidential power that has been going on since the early days of the 20th century. There would be no way to sit out that storm, the courts, legislature, and the country at large would have to decide at that point whether they were ok with the blatant expansion and abuse of power in the Presidency, instead of the slow creep that inattention (on the part of the public) and a reluctance to take a stand on anything (Congress) has enabled.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#238478: Apr 12th 2018 at 11:25:19 AM

Sorry for the double post, but...

Parkland teacher who voiced interest in teachers carrying guns is arrested for leaving a loaded gun unattended in bathroom. A drunk homeless man found it, picked it up, and fired it

I remember a few years ago hearing a British man who had been a part of a Muslim fundamentalist movement left it while he was imprisoned in Egypt in part because he looked around at all his fellow fundamentalists and the thought struck him "Would I really trust any of them with power over a country and the lives of other people?"

Some gun folks are doing their absolute best to make the U.S. think that way about our gun laws. Certainly at least he just showed that some of the hypothetical objections about storage and the wrong person getting ahold of a teacher's gun are not just hypotheticals.

edited 12th Apr '18 11:25:38 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238479: Apr 12th 2018 at 11:28:17 AM

I honestly cannot imagine just leaving a gun somewhere. Speaking as someone who occasionally carries a gun that’s legitimately inconceivable, it’s like leaving your pants somewhere or something. Anyone who is able to forget about the gun they’re carrying under any circumstances should not be trusted with one, period.

They should have sent a poet.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238480: Apr 12th 2018 at 11:33:06 AM

I've mentioned this before, but part of the reason why the republicans' embrace of Trump has been such an unveiling is because it shows a blatant double standard.

As we're all fond of remembering, it gets pretty blatant with a bunch of other Republicans too, but there's a certain reason to the madness.

Frankly that, for many of the "values voters", actually getting the policies they want passed are more important than maintaining the image of their "values". With Evangelicals in particular, it makes a lot more sense when you realize that "Evangelical" is more a cultural identifier for many of them than an accurate short-hand for their religious beliefs. Many White Evangelicals don't know, or care, about actual Evangelical beliefs.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#238481: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:12:52 PM

Whether evangelicals are hypocritical about their own beliefs or not is, in my mind, mostly just ammunition to discredit them. It's their policy aims that are damning, not necessarily their lack of practicing what they preach. It's kind of worrying when people are fixated on the disconnect between stated evangelical beliefs and their actions — if they practiced what they preached, what they preached would still be abhorrent.

edited 12th Apr '18 12:13:55 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#238482: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:21:55 PM

Good point on that, and well said.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#238483: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:27:44 PM

The point, I guess, is that if they actually practiced what they preached, they'd refuse to support some of the more abhorrent politicians that have shown up on the Republican side, and we'd presumably have higher-quality elected officials as a result. Remember the big fuss about how Utah was going to back some third party yahoo because Mormons were serious enough about their religion to stay away from Trump. Yeah, that didn't end up working out.

The point is that if they really voted their consciences, Republicans would have to field better people as candidates. So the obvious conclusion is that they aren't motivated by their faith so much as by their bigotry. This is part and parcel of what makes them horrible people. If they were capable of the kind of discretion that we're talking about, we wouldn't be in such a political quagmire to begin with.

And yes, FPTP does lend itself to a lot of this because it turns the ballot into an "us vs. them" thing, where keeping the opposite party out of power trumps all other concerns. The place to make their moral objections felt, therefore, would be in the primaries. So yeah.

[Insert mandatory disclaimer about "Not All Republicans".]

edited 12th Apr '18 12:32:09 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#238484: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:32:44 PM

But they won't field better candidates. Trump is right there demonstrating the exact issue with this kind of thinking. They have ridden the crazy train off the rails and over the cliff.

Cause the problem is that no matter how bad the other side is, eventually the sane guys will lose an election. That other shoe is going to drop. And that shoe is getting worse all the time, and shows no signs of slowing down. The problem is the Republican party and even that is a symptom of its voters who are driven by the grievances of white racial identity politics and Christian supremacy. Their response to Democratic victories is to completely refuse to see the Democrats, or people of color as an extension, as legitimate voices for participation on Democracy. and the mainstream media is not willing to call things as they are, because there need to be 'equal sides.' But no matter how good you are, you can always lose to the other party.

And if the other party has gone completely fucking insane by then...well, you get the present situation.

edited 12th Apr '18 12:33:24 PM by Lightysnake

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#238485: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:36:53 PM

Eh, evangelicals have always been more preoccupied with reshaping society to be in line with conservative theological doctrine and fulfilling Second Coming prophecies. Following Jesus's example never seems to be a priority to these people, so when someone says supporting Trump is hypocritical for them, I have to ask how. Trump is exactly the kind of man, candidate, and leader that emerges from their thinking. He isn't an aberration of these ideas, but a crystallization of them.

Trump's entire presidency violates the norms of pretty much every aspect of American political life, but the loyalty of evangelicals to his faction is basically exactly what can be expected.

edited 12th Apr '18 12:40:08 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238486: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:43:13 PM

I think there's a difference between acknowledging things would be "better"/not as bad, and saying they would be good.

It's not saying they wouldn't still have some horrible views to be opposed just that, on the whole, things probably wouldn't be as bad as they are now.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#238487: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:48:20 PM

Evangelicals' refusal to practice what they preach is both a symptom and a reflection of the underlying causes of our political divide. That is the point I'm making. The phenomena are inseparable from one another.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#238488: Apr 12th 2018 at 12:49:59 PM

All right, fair enough. I can agree with that.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#238489: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:05:33 PM

Revealed: Secret rightwing strategy to discredit teacher strikes

A nationwide network of rightwing thinktanks is launching a PR counteroffensive against the teachers’ strikes that are sweeping the country, circulating a “messaging guide” for anti-union activists that portrays the walkouts as harmful to low-income parents and their children.

The new rightwing strategy to discredit the strikes that have erupted in protest against cuts in education funding and poor teacher pay is contained in a three-page document obtained by the Guardian. Titled “How to talk about teacher strikes”, it provides a “dos and don’ts” manual for how to smear the strikers.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#238491: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:09:10 PM

Many of those right wingers are probably not high income, too.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238492: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:10:14 PM

[up][up]I don't understand why this surprises you, the right is dishonest and overwhelmingly pro-business. This is exactly up their alley.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#238493: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:15:00 PM

[up]

I'm not surprised at this move, I just didn't expect they would be using pamphlets now.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#238494: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:20:40 PM

That "secret strategy" seems like what right-wingers do anyway: tout false meritocracy, blame bureaucracy, dodge the fact that their tax cuts are mostly to blame. It's good we have a document of it, but really, this shouldn't be a huge surprise.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#238495: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:21:28 PM

[up][up]

We have neo-nazis doing that sometimes. Filled with the usual drivel.

edited 12th Apr '18 1:22:21 PM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238496: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:36:05 PM

[up][up]Yes, right-wing disinformation and lies are something that's going to happen either way. It's normal and isn't cause for undue concern.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#238497: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:41:48 PM

So, based on comments Mattis made today before the House Armed Services Committee it’s starting to seem like Trump’s tweets actually pushed back the timetable on a Syria strike.

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238498: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:43:24 PM

Meh, at this point I'm disgusted but not surprised.

Trump has made this normal.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#238499: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:43:53 PM

Got a link I can share around for that one?

Oh really when?
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#238500: Apr 12th 2018 at 1:45:38 PM

[up][up][up]Meaning they can't do it as soon as they would've hoped? If they'll do one at all?

edited 12th Apr '18 1:45:50 PM by kkhohoho


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