TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238076: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:20:11 PM

[up][up] In what way?

A lot of the recent success of the Democratic party can be attributed to how we've been relearning the arts of protest and organizing, and retaking some of the strategies that had been used by everyone from the Suffragettes, to the Civil Rights movement, and hundreds of others, including the Tea Party.

While the Tea Parties Goals were Reprehensible, their methods were sound. Of course, they built their platform and movement on exclusion, intolerance, and hate, which is why it has fallen apart so quickly when the thing that united them (a Black Liberal President) was gone. Instead we use those strategies to build an movement based in tolerance, inclusivity, and respect.

[down][down] ah, that makes sense.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:28:36 PM by megaeliz

Imca (Veteran)
#238077: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:23:10 PM

So what if they’re criminals? They still deserve human rights.
Agreed, just because I said they might be right in them being criminals, does not mean that I agree with them in treatment or prevention.

The best method of prevention is to make imigration easier, encourage use of official channels, then collect taxes and apply official protections.... it works out best for every one.

The goverment gets its money, the people comming to the country don't have to live in fear and get access to the protections and services provided, and every one else doesn't have to worry about them driving labor costs down since they will have the same wage protection as every one else (even though they tend to take jobs no one else wants any way)

things like ICE and the Wall are needlessly punitive, and do nothing but expend large amounts of money to make peoples lifes worse and are therefor horible ideas.

Let's be honest here. There isn't any room for debate in the Republican mind.

I wouldn't exactly say that considering that I have gotten a couple to change there stances on some minority rights topics, the thing is that it can quite easily devolve into what yous said if your not carefull.

....

That said, I want to try the jaywalking one now, since I can 100% see that as the responce to it, it is the same kind of "doesn't exactly follow the logic" responce that happens.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#238078: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:23:17 PM

[up][up] Protest is great. But I don't want them to start the same whatsaboutism the Republicans use, or do a disgusting smear campaign.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:23:26 PM by Swanpride

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238079: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:25:33 PM

I'm watching CNN, and they're saying the raid was authorized because of the payment he claims to have made to Stormy.

Serious question: If he gets disbarred for this, does that negate lawyer-client privilege?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238080: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:29:39 PM

I think he can't invoke attorney-client privilege if he's charged as an accomplice in one of their suspected crimes.

There is no way that Trump isn't going to blow a gasket over this one, apparently he watched it break live on Fox.

And in disappointing but probably not severe (I hope...) news: Gallup reports that Trump's approval is at 41% this week, the first time he's broken 40% since last May.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/203207/trump-job-approval-weekly.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_185273&g_medium=copy

Its only one week, and a 2% change from the last, but I guess the solid economy is enough to carry/slowly boost him.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:34:30 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#238081: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:33:38 PM

Oh what I would give to have a camera film his face when he got the news.

Probably nothing.

Inter arma enim silent leges
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238082: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:35:57 PM

[up][up] It's still in the low 40s. Unless something drastically changes, I don't think it's worth getting too worked up over.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:37:30 PM by megaeliz

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#238083: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:36:44 PM

[up]x6 Or speeding. Depending on your area, it may be a more relevant crime than jaywalking.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:36:59 PM by nightwyrm_zero

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#238084: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:54:54 PM

@Fluffy: And, what, you think those responses are any less vulernable to being picked apart in similar ways?

To wit:

  • "What did you do to earn citizenship?"
  • "Why does the fact that jaywalkers are citizens matter? Did you just say that what's important is that illegals are criminals?"
  • "I'm not normalizing anything. It's just if you're so against defending criminals, I have to question who's left for you to defend."

And if they end up just kind of repeating themselves or saying clearly irrational things, well, so what? It was always the people listening one was trying to persuade, and they're not gonna side with the people endlessly repeating obviously irrational things.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#238085: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:01:19 PM

This means that Andrew Weissmann, the prosecutor leading the Manafort arm of the investigation, can continue to to pursue it, even if Mueller himself is fired.

And there may be more similar arrangements that we don't know about, since Mueller has declared several of his lead prosecutors "Assistant Special Counsels".

I've posted articles about this subject on a couple of occasions in the past: not only can the investigation continue if Mueller is fired (a President cannot fire the special grand jury) but there's actually historical precedence for a special grand jury to continue after the prosecutor (Mueller) has been removed.

All it requires is for the prosecutor (Mueller) to have shared enough evidence with the jury for it to justify continuation after the prosecutor's removal — and all the signs to date are that Mueller's been working very closely with the jury in terms of evidence.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:03:21 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#238086: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:01:33 PM

Irrational is an important word here. Because people against illegal immigrants are irrational. Illegal immigrants are a boon to our nation. Our farms heavily rely on them. They are well below average in terms of criminal activity, thus making the country safer overall. They pay taxes, yet because they can't, are less of a drain on entitlements.

Anyone complaining about illegal immigrants are either ignorant or racist.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#238087: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:05:14 PM

Fundamentally It doesn't really matter if you don't convince your opponent, what matters is getting your position out there in a strong manner to convince the undecideds. Thus there is a utility to debating Republicans.

(also this isn't aimed at anyone's argument in particular, just a general thing that matters)

edited 9th Apr '18 3:05:36 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238088: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:05:21 PM

Adding onto the racism and ignorance, for a lot of people it's the principle of the situation. There's a "right way" to do it, and if you don't do it that way you deserve to be kicked out even if overall everyone benefits.

That the "right way" is often unnecessarily hard and many native-born Americans wouldn't make it through isn't the point. This line of reasoning is part of why some legal immigrants are super anti-illegal immigration: "I suffered through the proper channels so you should to." and the like.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#238089: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:05:51 PM

For the record, the Constitution mostly grants rights to people, not citizens. Illegal aliens have plenty of rights. Not so much power to fight legal battles on their own behalf though.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238090: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:31:16 PM

Updates on Cohen.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/michael-cohen-office-raid/index.html

Highlights include the seizure of communications with Trump, personal bank records, Trump screaming about how its a disgrace and conflict of interest on the part of Mueller and co, and a White House source saying this might push Trump to fire Mueller, Sessions and Rosenstein.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:34:20 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238091: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:33:42 PM

I'm listening to Trump blathering right now, via CNN. All he can do is whine about how "unfair" it is that his people are being targeted when Hillary isn't ... and that's he's going to fire Sessions for recusing himself.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#238092: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:33:52 PM

[up][up] If Trump fires all 3, then I don't think there's any saving Trump at that point; I think Congress would have to impeach him. Otherwise, the Blue Wave will consume 80-90% of the House and 100% of the Senate Elections (not to mention the Governor and State/Local Elections).

[up] Heck, if Trump fires just Sessions it will probably result in Republicans in the Senate abandoning Trump. We could end up with a Democratic Senate just because a few Republicans will no longer side with Trump.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:34:46 PM by DingoWalley1

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#238093: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:44:47 PM

I’m still not entirely convinced the republicans will bend even if sessions gets removed. We keep saying that they can’t possib sell out that badly and yet they’ve sold out plenty before, haven’t they?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238094: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:45:33 PM

Its really hard to tell if this is just Trump's typical hotair tantrum, or if he's really planning on going after people.

[up][up]You are putting an awful lot of confidence in the GOP voter base, aren't you?

[up]This. Until the GOP actually takes action against Trump, be it on Mueller, trade, or whatever, they should be seen as complete collaborators.

Talk is cheap.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:46:37 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238095: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:46:06 PM

And the best part about for me, it is that Trump can't do anything about it. It's being investigated by the New York FBI Office.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:48:42 PM by megaeliz

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238096: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:46:11 PM

If Trump fires all 3, then I don't think there's any saving Trump at that point; I think Congress would have to impeach him.
$20 says the GOP still won't vote for it. As much as I want to think Trump was using hyperbole when he made the comment of "I could shoot someone dead on the street and no one would care" ... it's looking more and more like that was the absolute truth.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#238097: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:47:59 PM

[up] I can't tell what you're responding to.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238098: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:49:12 PM

[up] On my phone and accidently touched it. Here's what I said though, since it was at the bottom of the page.

The best part about for me, it is that Trump can't do anything about it. It's being investigated by the New York FBI Office, and will likely be prosecuted there.

edited 9th Apr '18 3:51:52 PM by megaeliz

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#238099: Apr 9th 2018 at 3:51:48 PM

Without doomsaying, what are some plans people can make to protest, assuming the republicans do nothing? I recall a “mueller contingency plan” happening but I don’t remember the site itself.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#238100: Apr 9th 2018 at 4:00:29 PM

I find it hard to believe that Trump's approval rating is actually in the double digits. Who in the fucking Hell are all these people who actually approve of the Great Pumpkinhead!?

Also: Hillary Clinton is completely irrelevant to present-day politics, so any argument that brings her up is regressionist.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Total posts: 417,856
Top