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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238051: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:16:11 PM

[up] That's actually not a bad idea.

This last week tonight segment about immigration courts is also worth a watch

It's not as talked about as the other issues, but a lot of the stuff is rather disturbing to say the least.

edited 9th Apr '18 12:24:31 PM by megaeliz

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#238052: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:31:07 PM

[up][up]

Debating with Trump supporters about immigration will always inevitably lead to them going "But illegal immigrants are illegal amirite? They broke the law, and anyone who defends them are defending criminals" as a last resort.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#238053: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:39:54 PM

"What's wrong with defending criminals who haven't done anything morally wrong?"

Or "Jaywalkers are also breaking the law, and I don't hear you clamouring to call in the army on them."

Or "Are you trying to tell me that you've never broken any laws?"

So, y'know, if that's their last resort... they ain't winning the debate.

edited 9th Apr '18 12:42:21 PM by Gilphon

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238055: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:48:34 PM

[up] Both sides, both sides!

Remember how Farmers are becoming disenchanted with Trump because of his trade war?

President Trump on Monday acknowledged that U.S. farmers could take a hit from trade disputes with China but said they will ultimately "understand" why the confrontation is necessary.

"But if we do a deal with China, if, during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers because they think that hits me, I wouldn't say that's nice. But I tell you, our farmers are great patriots," Trump said.

"These are great patriots. They understand that they're doing this for the country," Trump said. "And we'll make it up to them. And in the end, they're going to be much stronger than they are right now."

He added that farmers have been "trending downward over an eight-year period" and said that, because of his actions on the North American Free Trade Agreement and China, "farmers will be better off than they ever were." [1]

edited 9th Apr '18 12:50:19 PM by megaeliz

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238056: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:05:34 PM

Double Post, but new topic:

F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen note 

The F.B.I. on Monday raided the office of President Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, seizing records related to several topics including payments to a pornographic-film actress.

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan obtained the search warrant after receiving a referral from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, who called the search “completely inappropriate and unnecessary.” The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York.

“Today the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications between my client, Michael Cohen, and his clients,” said Stephen Ryan, his lawyer. “I have been advised by federal prosecutors that the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller.”

Mr. Cohen plays a role in aspects of the special counsel’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. He also recently said he paid $130,000 to a pornographic-film actress, Stephanie Clifford, who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump. Ms. Clifford is known as Stormy Daniels.

Mr. Ryan said Mr. Cohen has cooperated with authorities and turned over thousands of documents to congressional investigators looking into Russian election meddling.

The payments to Ms. Clifford are only one of many topics being investigated, according to a person briefed on the search. The F.B.I. also seized emails, tax documents and business records, the person said.

The seized records include communications between Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen, which would likely require a special team of agents to review because conversations between lawyers and clients are protected from scrutiny in most instances.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#238057: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:06:08 PM

Border security is one of the most boring jobs in existence and Trump's push to reinforce them is alarmingly unspecific about what they would actually be doing.
Because Trump's plan would be to have the National Guard gunning down every Hispanic-looking person found within 20 miles of the border on either side.

[up] A lot of those farmers are complaining about the tariffs, since they face losing homes or farmland after a single harvest that does poorly thanks to tariffs.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#238058: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:06:15 PM

I’m glad unions are starting to think up creative ways to get a foothold, especially with the Supreme Court decision that will almost certainly destroy much of their power. Hopefully things can turn around.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#238059: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:07:51 PM

[up]x3 I'm pretty sure that means Cohen is going to get indicted soon. You don't get raided by the FBI unless they have dirt on you already and want more, or you've been Swatted.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#238060: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:08:34 PM

Trump expects farmers to just accept and support the massive hit they would take in his trade war. That's a lot of hubris, even by his standards.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238061: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:13:03 PM

[up][up] Ohh, we'll have to watch for that then. It's actually kind of exciting to see who gets indicted next.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#238062: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:18:09 PM

RE Cohen, I laughed. Best news I heard all day. Like some of the others involved (especially Manaffort and Flynn, it's kind of situation where I"d be surprised if they weren't doing something illegal and so it's not surprising that they eventually got into trouble after years of using a George Costanza style "Was that wrong?" defense.

RE the farmer, to the extent Trump has a plan, he's probably hoping to have their support for him increase by directing their hatred against China and Hispanics. So he probably figures their hardship is a good thing because the angrier they are the better.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#238063: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:20:50 PM

Trump doesn't think about these things. He makes policy based on what he sees on Fox News and what his inner circle of sycophants presents to him in 20-point font with cartoon animals in the margins. He expects loyalty and adulation because he knows that he's such a great President and of course everyone will see the wisdom of his proclamations.

His danger is that of the two year old locked in the garage with power tools.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#238064: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:21:54 PM

I'd disagree because the two-year-old is primarily a danger to themselves, not others.

Imca (Veteran)
#238065: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:29:25 PM

Debating with Trump supporters about immigration will always inevitably lead to them going "But illegal immigrants are illegal amirite? They broke the law, and anyone who defends them are defending criminals" as a last resort.

And what would the responce to that one be? Because there not exactly wrong, they are here illegally, and thus are technically criminals.

And as much as you and I want more efficient immigration, that does not change the fact that currently they are criminals.

The best way to prevent that is to make immigration itself easier so that more people can come through the proper channels, but Trumpettes are never about actually preventing crime, only punishing it.

Notice how on even there pet "lets look good project" the opiod crisis, it is never about actually preventing people from getting addicted, or helping those that are.... its about punishment.....

And that's when your talking about white people, let alone people who aren't.

edited 9th Apr '18 1:30:16 PM by Imca

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#238066: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:35:11 PM

One more point to bring up regarding the Wall - Trump's proposal back in 2017 was to cut the Coast Guard's budget by $1.3 billion (roughly 12% of its annual budget) in order to help fund the wall, which would allow drug dealers a lot more access to the US since those cuts would adversely effect the Coast Guard's ability to... well, guard the coast.

And given how ingenious some drug-running attempts have been, including this crudely-built submarine snagged in November 2017, I'm pretty sure the Coast Guard could use that funding in a far more effective manner than the damned wall, which can have a number of workarounds for illegal crossings.

edited 9th Apr '18 1:36:13 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#238067: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:36:19 PM

If we're playing the semantic game, I've heard that immigration is a civil thing, not a criminal one, so technically they aren't criminals. But again, that's semantics even if true, because everyone involved knows what we're actually talking about.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#238068: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:48:43 PM

The crime happens when they cross the border illegally. Most of the time, this is neither here nor there in case of asylum seekers, but the government can prosecute them.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#238069: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:56:49 PM

So what if they’re criminals? They still deserve human rights.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#238070: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:59:24 PM

[up][up][up]

While it's a semantic thing, the issue, as brought up by Last Week Tonight, is that this means they are not entitled to a government-appointed lawyer (if they can't afford one), which has led to literal children (as in 2-17 years old) being left without an attorney, and having to represent themselves in court.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#238071: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:06:20 PM

How the hell can you prosecute a child for a civil crime anyway? Only in the bizarro world of immigration courts is that a thing.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238072: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:07:28 PM

On the Cohen raid, according to the New York Times, it is not part of Mueller investigation proper, but most likely arose from evidence that was uncovered by his investigation, that was then referred to the New York office of the FBI.

It must have been incredibly solid evidence, to make a court give permission to seize privileged documents.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:14:32 PM by megaeliz

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#238073: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:08:07 PM

Re: "But illegal are illegals!"

The problem is when they use "But illegals are illegals!" to justify the Wall and law enforcement corruption without debating the actual costs and effectiveness of such measures. It's a cheap "Gotcha!" to never actually consider the notion that the option they're calling for its far too Awesome, but Impractical.

Imca: "What's wrong with defending criminals who haven't done anything morally wrong?"

"They're trying to have all the benefits of living here in this country instead of actually becoming a citizen to earn them!"

"Jaywalkers are also breaking the law, and I don't hear you clamouring to call in the army on them."

"Jaywalkers may be breaking the law but they still may be citizens. Illegals are criminals in and of themselves."

"Are you trying to tell me that you've never broken any laws?"

"Why are you trying to normalize criminal behavior?"

Let's be honest here. There isn't any room for debate in the Republican mind. Democrats have been flanked for too long simply because they wasted too much time and energy into trying to persuade people who believe that engaging in these discussions as being clever to distract you from mobilizing your own base.

edited 9th Apr '18 2:11:18 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#238074: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:11:30 PM

I still don't want the Democrats employ the tactics the Republicans do. They need to find another way.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#238075: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:14:19 PM

Apparently it was a triple raid

They got searched his home, office, and hotel room


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