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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
"What's wrong with defending criminals who haven't done anything morally wrong?"
Or "Jaywalkers are also breaking the law, and I don't hear you clamouring to call in the army on them."
Or "Are you trying to tell me that you've never broken any laws?"
So, y'know, if that's their last resort... they ain't winning the debate.
edited 9th Apr '18 12:42:21 PM by Gilphon
Well. This was a snotty thing to do: Sinclair agrees to air an ad from a consumer watchdog group... sandwiched between two ads from Sinclair bashing the ad in question.
Are they TRYING to get people to hate them?
Both sides, both sides!
Remember how Farmers are becoming disenchanted with Trump because of his trade war?
"But if we do a deal with China, if, during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers because they think that hits me, I wouldn't say that's nice. But I tell you, our farmers are great patriots," Trump said.
"These are great patriots. They understand that they're doing this for the country," Trump said. "And we'll make it up to them. And in the end, they're going to be much stronger than they are right now."
He added that farmers have been "trending downward over an eight-year period" and said that, because of his actions on the North American Free Trade Agreement and China, "farmers will be better off than they ever were." [1]
edited 9th Apr '18 12:50:19 PM by megaeliz
Double Post, but new topic:
F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen note
Federal prosecutors in Manhattan obtained the search warrant after receiving a referral from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, who called the search “completely inappropriate and unnecessary.” The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York.
“Today the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications between my client, Michael Cohen, and his clients,” said Stephen Ryan, his lawyer. “I have been advised by federal prosecutors that the New York action is, in part, a referral by the Office of Special Counsel, Robert Mueller.”
Mr. Cohen plays a role in aspects of the special counsel’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. He also recently said he paid $130,000 to a pornographic-film actress, Stephanie Clifford, who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump. Ms. Clifford is known as Stormy Daniels.
Mr. Ryan said Mr. Cohen has cooperated with authorities and turned over thousands of documents to congressional investigators looking into Russian election meddling.
The payments to Ms. Clifford are only one of many topics being investigated, according to a person briefed on the search. The F.B.I. also seized emails, tax documents and business records, the person said.
The seized records include communications between Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen, which would likely require a special team of agents to review because conversations between lawyers and clients are protected from scrutiny in most instances.
A lot of those farmers are complaining about the tariffs, since they face losing homes or farmland after a single harvest that does poorly thanks to tariffs.
RE Cohen, I laughed. Best news I heard all day. Like some of the others involved (especially Manaffort and Flynn, it's kind of situation where I"d be surprised if they weren't doing something illegal and so it's not surprising that they eventually got into trouble after years of using a George Costanza style "Was that wrong?" defense.
RE the farmer, to the extent Trump has a plan, he's probably hoping to have their support for him increase by directing their hatred against China and Hispanics. So he probably figures their hardship is a good thing because the angrier they are the better.
Trump doesn't think about these things. He makes policy based on what he sees on Fox News and what his inner circle of sycophants presents to him in 20-point font with cartoon animals in the margins. He expects loyalty and adulation because he knows that he's such a great President and of course everyone will see the wisdom of his proclamations.
His danger is that of the two year old locked in the garage with power tools.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"And what would the responce to that one be? Because there not exactly wrong, they are here illegally, and thus are technically criminals.
And as much as you and I want more efficient immigration, that does not change the fact that currently they are criminals.
The best way to prevent that is to make immigration itself easier so that more people can come through the proper channels, but Trumpettes are never about actually preventing crime, only punishing it.
Notice how on even there pet "lets look good project" the opiod crisis, it is never about actually preventing people from getting addicted, or helping those that are.... its about punishment.....
And that's when your talking about white people, let alone people who aren't.
edited 9th Apr '18 1:30:16 PM by Imca
One more point to bring up regarding the Wall - Trump's proposal back in 2017 was to cut the Coast Guard's budget by $1.3 billion (roughly 12% of its annual budget) in order to help fund the wall
, which would allow drug dealers a lot more access to the US since those cuts would adversely effect the Coast Guard's ability to... well, guard the coast.
And given how ingenious some drug-running attempts have been, including this crudely-built submarine snagged in November 2017
, I'm pretty sure the Coast Guard could use that funding in a far more effective manner than the damned wall, which can have a number of workarounds for illegal crossings.
edited 9th Apr '18 1:36:13 PM by ironballs16
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
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While it's a semantic thing, the issue, as brought up by Last Week Tonight, is that this means they are not entitled to a government-appointed lawyer (if they can't afford one), which has led to literal children (as in 2-17 years old) being left without an attorney, and having to represent themselves in court.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"How the hell can you prosecute a child for a civil crime anyway? Only in the bizarro world of immigration courts is that a thing.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"On the Cohen raid, according to the New York Times, it is not part of Mueller investigation proper, but most likely arose from evidence that was uncovered by his investigation, that was then referred to the New York office of the FBI.
It must have been incredibly solid evidence, to make a court give permission to seize privileged documents.
edited 9th Apr '18 2:14:32 PM by megaeliz
Re: "But illegal are illegals!"
The problem is when they use "But illegals are illegals!" to justify the Wall and law enforcement corruption without debating the actual costs and effectiveness of such measures. It's a cheap "Gotcha!" to never actually consider the notion that the option they're calling for its far too Awesome, but Impractical.
"They're trying to have all the benefits of living here in this country instead of actually becoming a citizen to earn them!"
"Jaywalkers may be breaking the law but they still may be citizens. Illegals are criminals in and of themselves."
"Why are you trying to normalize criminal behavior?"
Let's be honest here. There isn't any room for debate in the Republican mind. Democrats have been flanked for too long simply because they wasted too much time and energy into trying to persuade people who believe that engaging in these discussions as being clever to distract you from mobilizing your own base.
edited 9th Apr '18 2:11:18 PM by FluffyMcChicken

This last week tonight segment about immigration courts is also worth a watch
It's not as talked about as the other issues, but a lot of the stuff is rather disturbing to say the least.
edited 9th Apr '18 12:24:31 PM by megaeliz