TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#237976: Apr 8th 2018 at 7:33:55 PM

It's a less shitty idea than going "But Hillary!" again. Which is actually a strategy they are using.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#237977: Apr 8th 2018 at 7:35:09 PM

[up]True, which if anything just shows how little option they have tongue

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#237978: Apr 8th 2018 at 7:38:48 PM

I sometimes what it would be like if they were just honest in their campaign ads.

"Vote for us so we can lower taxes for the rich and big business, kill your healthcare, stripmine your parks, hollow out public schools so we can give tax breaks to private ones, and put black people in the back of the bus where they belong!"

Disgusted, but not surprised
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#237979: Apr 8th 2018 at 7:50:04 PM

Chances are, if this was done early enough (say, Bush Jr's term at the latest) then it would had probably killed the GOP as we know it. ripple effects form that would not be so clear other than that the far right would have less influence compared to now.

edited 8th Apr '18 7:52:11 PM by MorningStar1337

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237980: Apr 8th 2018 at 8:31:25 PM

About the fire in Trump Tower, apparently Trump opposed a proposal in the late 90s that would have requires sprinklers in all high rise units, citing "that it would be too expensive to refit his building".

Donald Trump fiercely opposed a New York City proposal in the late 1990s that would have mandated fire sprinklers in all high-rise residential units ― including those in Trump Tower, where a resident died Saturday in the building’s second fire in four months.

The apartment of the man who died did not have sprinklers installed, fire officials said.

Back in the ’90s, Trump, then a real estate developer, argued that installing the sprinklers would be too costly. The city council was considering such a mandate in the aftermath of two fatal high-rise fires in Brooklyn and Manhattan, the New York Post wrote at the time.

edited 8th Apr '18 8:32:38 PM by megaeliz

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#237981: Apr 8th 2018 at 8:43:48 PM

How cheap could someone be?

Could the relatives of the deceased sue?

edited 8th Apr '18 8:45:35 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#237982: Apr 8th 2018 at 8:47:57 PM

Trump is a cheapskate when it comes to things like making sure the kitchens at his resorts and hotels are up to health codes (don't eat at a Trump establishment — overpriced and unsafe), cybersecurity (don't pay for anything at a Trump establishment with a credit card — overpriced and unsafe), and apparently fire safety (don't live in a Trump establishment — overpriced and unsafe).

There's a pattern there...

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237983: Apr 8th 2018 at 9:09:32 PM

[up] So what you're saying is Trump is also Overpriced and unsafe?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#237984: Apr 8th 2018 at 9:12:13 PM

Trump would be overpriced if the price was a penny. Shit, he'd be overpriced even if he was free. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with him.

As for unsafe...well, yeah.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237985: Apr 8th 2018 at 11:33:08 PM

I just had a thought.

How will this Trump Scandal be remembered in history do you think? (Because it will.) Watergate (which was nothing in comparison) was lucky enough to be centered around a hotel with a very catchy name, but this investigation and scandal is just so much bigger, and not just about Russia. (Maybe "The Mueller Investigation" will stick?)

Like the implications of this investigation will be felt for decades, even more so than Watergate. This investigation is already redefining international relationships, exposing deeply hidden Money Laundering schemes and corruption, and untangling an internation web of criminal activity, that makes every other scandal look like child's play.

edited 8th Apr '18 11:42:16 PM by megaeliz

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#237986: Apr 8th 2018 at 11:37:13 PM

The name Trump itself. You'll never be able to say "X trumped Y" casually ever again.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#237988: Apr 8th 2018 at 11:47:50 PM

Wel, if thing in my country said something, we dont like to said the work Maduro(Mature) anymore, so yeah, the work Trump is out.

Now, what I fear is how the polarization is going to shake the country because even if trump is out without too much damage, a deal breaker have open right now, is really hard the trump based and others look each other as belonging into the same country.

That of course and how race relation work in the country.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#237989: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:22:21 AM

[up] Obviously removing Trump from office won't solve everything. There's a lot of work that needs to be done before we can treat the wound and it will take time for the scars to fade. And they will never truly go away.

But as long as Trump is in office, the wound won't heal. Removing Trump wll at least stop the bleeding.

Disgusted, but not surprised
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#237990: Apr 9th 2018 at 12:26:22 AM

As an addendum to the 'the military is the #1 most trusted institution in America,' here's another interesting chart showing the percentage of the population who would be open to either rule by the military, rule by a strongman, or rule by 'experts.'

I find the methodology of the last one suspect, but the other two are fairly clean-cut, and look at America in this comparison.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#237991: Apr 9th 2018 at 1:21:58 AM

Farmers’ Anger at Trump Tariffs Puts Republican Candidates in a Bind:

As President Trump moves to fulfill one of the central promises of his campaign — to get tough on an ascendant China — he faces a potential rebellion from a core constituency: farmers and other agricultural producers who could suffer devastating losses in a trade war.

Mr. Trump’s threat to impose tariffs on Chinese goods came with a presidential declaration that trade wars are good and easily won. But the action has injected damaging uncertainty into the economy as Republicans are already struggling to maintain their hold on the House and the Senate in a difficult election year.

While the battle for control of the House will be waged in large part in the suburbs, rural districts in Southern Illinois, Iowa, Arkansas and Missouri could prove important. And control of the Senate could come down to Republican efforts to unseat Democrats in North Dakota, Indiana, Missouri and Montana — all states staring down the barrels of a trade war’s guns.

With farmers angry and worried as China vows to retaliate, many Republicans find themselves torn between loyalty to a president who remains broadly popular in rural states and the demands of constituents, especially farmers, to oppose his tariffs.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#237992: Apr 9th 2018 at 2:52:38 AM

Good. Let them eat each other.

If rural Republicans are lucky, the people they'll still likely vote against will win and halt the worst of the damage to our agriculture industry.

It's been fun.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#237993: Apr 9th 2018 at 4:14:43 AM

[up][up][up]It’s not a terrible measure of a nation’s authoritarian sympathies, but your right in that those options equally.

[up][up]Wouldn’t surprise me if they still largely voted Republican cause “culture wars”.

edited 9th Apr '18 4:17:53 AM by Mio

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237994: Apr 9th 2018 at 4:56:23 AM

So one of those Russians that were Sanctioned by the Treasury, had very close ties to the NRA. [1]

Alexander Torshin, the Russian government official Rolling Stone reports is central to a nearly decade-long influence campaign over the NRA, has been hit with sanctions by the United States Treasury Department. Torshin is a lifetime, voting member of the NRA, and the FBI is reportedly investigating whether he illegally funneled money through the organization with the intention to help the 2016 Trump campaign.

Torshin is among nearly three dozen Russian oligarchs, companies and government officials who were added to the sanctions list Friday by the Office of Foreign Assets Control. Torshin is now on the list by authority of an executive order signed in 2014 relating to Russia's annexation of Crimea and interference in Ukraine. According to the text of the executive order, these sanctions freeze any American-based or -linked assets Torshin may have and bans his travel to the United States. According to Treasury, "U.S. persons are generally prohibited from dealings" with the newly sanctioned individuals.

Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, underscored the need for the expanded sanctions in a statement: "The Russian government engages in a range of malign activity around the globe, including continuing to occupy Crimea and instigate violence in eastern Ukraine... attempting to subvert Western democracies, and malicious cyber activities," Mnuchin said. "Russian oligarchs and elites who profit from this corrupt system will no longer be insulated from the consequences of their government's destabilizing activities."

As Rolling Stone's investigation reveals, Torshin has been an NRA member since at least 2010, cultivating deep ties to its leadership, including at the NRA's annual conventions and through NRA delegation visits to Moscow, most recently in December 2015. Through his NRA connections, Torshin sought to broker a meeting between candidate Trump and Vladimir Putin in 2016, later meeting with Donald Trump, Jr. at May 2016 NRA convention.

I hope they go down in this.

edited 9th Apr '18 5:29:47 AM by megaeliz

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#237995: Apr 9th 2018 at 5:33:03 AM

"Exclusive: As elections near, many older, educated, white voters shift away from Trump's party" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-healthcare-poll/exclusive-as-elections-near-many-older-educated-white-voters-shift-away-from-trumps-party-idUSKBN1HG1I6

An excerpt:

Older, white, educated voters helped Donald Trump win the White House in 2016. Now, they are trending toward Democrats in such numbers that their ballots could tip the scales in tight congressional races from New Jersey to California, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll and a data analysis of competitive districts shows.

Nationwide, whites over the age of 60 with college degrees now favor Democrats over Republicans for Congress by a 2-point margin, according to Reuters/Ipsos opinion polling during the first three months of the year. During the same period in 2016, that same group favored Republicans for Congress by 10 percentage points. 

The 12-point swing is one of the largest shifts in support toward Democrats that the Reuters/Ipsos poll has measured over the past two years. If that trend continues, Republicans will struggle to keep control of the House of Representatives, and possibly the Senate, in the November elections, potentially dooming President Donald Trump's legislative agenda.

“The real core for the Republicans is white, older white, and if they’re losing ground there, they’re going to have a tsunami,” said Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist who closely tracks political races. “If that continues to November, they’re toast.”

Asked about the swing, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna Mc Daniel cited robust fund-raising and said the party would field strong campaigns in battleground states. "We are not taking a single vote for granted,” she said in a statement.

John Camm has been a Republican since the Nixon Administration, but the 63-year-old Tucson accountant says he will likely support a Democrat for Congress in November. He is splitting with his party over access to health insurance as well as its recent overhaul of the nation's income tax system. He also supports gun control measures that the party has rejected.

"I'm a moderate Republican, and yet my party has run away from that," Camm said. "So give me a moderate Democrat."

Camm is not alone in his worries about healthcare. The number of educated older adults choosing "healthcare" in the Reuters/Ipsos poll as their top issue nearly tripled over the past two years, from 8 percent to 21 percent. The poll did not ask respondents precisely what their concerns about healthcare were.

Typically though, voters' concerns are varied. Some fear the repealing of the Affordable Care Act, former President Barack Obama's signature effort to offer subsidized health insurance to millions of Americans and expand healthcare to the poor. Others cite high prescription drug costs and the high cost of healthcare in general.


Also:
Arm teachers? Require gun training? Here’s where Idaho governor candidates stand

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/election/article208270019.html

Idaho's gubernatorial candidates weigh in on the gun debate.

edited 9th Apr '18 6:08:56 AM by sgamer82

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#237996: Apr 9th 2018 at 7:34:31 AM

Apparently the GOP's new strategy is "Vote for us, or they'll impeach Trump":
The line I like best is how the whole thing started as "extreme hyperbole and became mainstream", just like the alt-right running the GOP.
"Vote for us so we can lower taxes for the rich and big business, kill your healthcare, stripmine your parks, hollow out public schools so we can give tax breaks to private ones, and put black people in the back of the bus where they belong!"
Emphasizing that last one would, sadly, motivate their base enough to ignore all the rest of it.
here's another interesting chart showing the percentage of the population who would be open to either rule by the military, rule by a strongman, or rule by 'experts.'
As someone in the military, that scares the hell out of me.

And now for the news:

The alt-right is pushing hard in Maryland, as two different high schools had issues with nooses and Confederate flags being brought to two local high schools for the anniversary of MLK Jr's assasination. Full article text 

MD PASADENA — Nooses were found at two Maryland high schools on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.

The Capital reported that Gov. Larry Hogan cited one of those incidents in a tweet Thursday, condemning the actions of a Chesapeake High School student who brought a noose and Confederate flag to school Wednesday. Hogan tweeted that “kind of garbage has no place in Maryland .” The noose and flag follow a recent series of racial slurs and threats made at the school.

On Maryland’s Eastern Shore, Worcester County Public Schools’ Carrie Sterrs told The Daily Times a noose was found in the boys bathroom at Stephen Decatur High School.

I'll cross-post this to the Privacy thread too, but Trump wants to give two federal agencies the authority to override and take control of any drone in the air. Obviously that's more than a little concerning to anyone not wearing a MAGA hat. Full article text 

WASHINGTON — Citing a growing threat that terrorists will use drones for surveillance or as weapons, the Trump administration is asking Congress to give the Homeland Security and Justice departments the power to track, reroute or destroy the devices, according to a copy of the legislative proposal obtained by The Washington Post.

The legislation would free safety and security officials from those agencies, and their contractors, from laws against intercepting electronic communications that officials say have hamstrung their ability to protect sensitive facilities from cheap and powerful unmanned aircraft .

It would also give wide discretion to those working for the government, outside observers said. The full picture of which facilities would fall under the new authorities remains unclear. Those facilities would be subject to what the proposed legislation calls a “risk-based assessment” as well as regulations and guidance that would be shielded from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

“Overseas, ISIS, other terrorist groups, and criminal organizations use commercially available [unmanned aircraft systems] to drop explosive payloads, deliver harmful substances, and conduct reconnaissance,” says a document accompanying the legislative text. “Law enforcement and homeland security professionals are gravely concerned that terrorists and criminals will use the nefarious tactics engineered overseas in the homeland.”

The proposal comes weeks before the Transportation Department plans to announce which states, communities and companies have been selected as part of an administration push to expand drone use nationwide. The White House announced the drone integration pilot program in October, and groups from Nevada to Virginia have applied. Firms including Google, Uber and Amazon.com have teamed with communities on the effort.

Supporters want the ability to fly drones in ways that generally are not allowed today, such as roaming across a wide area outside the direct view of the operator. Security officials have long raised concerns, and the pilot program and legislation are among efforts to address them.

Lastly, a (probably futile) call to stop politicizing the courts and to respect their independence, as that is one of the important cornerstones in the separation of powers for our federal system. Full article text 

Last week in Wisconsin, an election for an open seat on the State Supreme Court was so bitterly contested that voters were barraged with more than $2.6 million in television and radio ads. Most of the money was spent by partisan outside groups attacking the candidates, who were nominally nonpartisan, for past decisions in criminal cases.

In Kansas, lawmakers are seeking to amend the state Constitution to strip the courts there of all power to rule on cases involving education funding. The push follows a ruling last year by the Kansas Supreme Court ordering the Legislature to find the money to fund the school system adequately by the end of this month or face a statewide school shutdown. Kansas has faced dire budget shortfalls since 2012, when it passed massive tax cuts championed by Sam Brownback, then the Republican governor.

Meanwhile, Republican legislators in North Carolina, who recently gerrymandered themselves into a veto-proof majority, have taken repeated aim at the state courts. On party-line votes, they reduced the size of the state’s midlevel appeals court, preventing Gov. Roy Cooper, a Democrat elected in 2016, from filling seats. They required judicial candidates running at all levels to identify themselves by partisan affiliation. They tried, and failed, to expand the state’s Supreme Court right before Cooper took office, in the hope of slipping a few extra appointments into the hands of the departing Republican governor, Pat Mc Crory. In a special session next month, they will attempt to gerrymander trial-court districts in favor of Republicans and to cut judicial terms from eight years to two.

And in Pennsylvania, a dozen Republican lawmakers have moved to impeach four justices of the state’s Supreme Court — all of them Democrats — for their majority vote in January to strike down a congressional district map that was heavily biased in favor of Republicans.

Are we the only ones sensing a pattern here? Across the country, state judges are under increasing fire from lawmakers and outside groups angered by their rulings, their power, their tenure or simply their independence. That independence is, of course, central to the separation of powers, which defines American government, and to the legitimacy of the judicial branch in the eyes of the public. Going after judges for partisan reasons may not be a particularly new pastime, but it has become more popular as America’s politics have become more polarized and as brute tribal warfare replaces a respect for basic democratic values.

Already in 2018, lawmakers in at least 16 states are considering at least 51 bills that would diminish or politicize the role of the judiciary, according to a report by the Brennan Center for Justice. Some bills would inject more politics into the judicial selection process, or into court rulings themselves. Bills elsewhere would slash funding to the courts, shorten judicial term lengths or just eliminate seats, as has happened in North Carolina. Still others would protect legislatures from the effects of court rulings, as Kansas lawmakers are trying to do in the case of school funding.

Most if not all of these bills are terrible for the judiciary and harmful to democracy. But even if they don’t become law, the message they send and the publicity they generate can have real consequences. This is especially true for elected judges, who may be more wary of issuing what they perceive to be controversial or unpopular rulings, for fear of blowback. That fear isn’t unfounded. In 2010, three justices of the Iowa Supreme Court lost retention elections the year after they voted to legalize same-sex marriage in the state.

Of course, electing judges doesn’t just affect their behavior. Equally important, it affects how the public perceives them. One poll found that almost nine in 10 voters said campaign contributions and spending by independent groups affect judicial decisions. Almost half of state judges agree.

But no matter how judges get on the bench, the important thing is to keep them as insulated as possible from outside political pressures. Instead, many lawmakers in recent years have been doing the opposite, treating judges like political pawns who are, or should be, more beholden to a partisan platform or public pressure than to the law. For those lawmakers to then complain about judges acting like legislators is rich.

Especially dangerous are efforts to impeach justices over specific rulings, as is happening now in Pennsylvania. Impeachment is a tool best used very rarely, as it has been with federal judges. In fact, only 15 federal judges have been impeached in American history. Impeachment should be reserved for situations involving serious ethical or criminal violations, not for decisions that displease a political party.

Of course, judges have political beliefs and ideological persuasions. Everyone does. But public officials must not treat the judiciary as if it were just another political branch. Doing so undermines public respect for state courts — which provide most Americans with their only experiences with the judiciary — and debases their hard-won independence, for nothing but partisan gain.

The author of course ignores that "nothing but partisan gain" is more important than "having a healthy, stable government" to the alt-right running the GOP.

edited 9th Apr '18 7:40:16 AM by BlueNinja0

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237997: Apr 9th 2018 at 7:37:00 AM

I was listening to this week's episode of "Mueller, She Wrote", and was floored by something.

On Page 42 of the motion that Mueller filed to dismiss Manafort's charges, it says that

And the Senior Assistant Special Counsel in charge of this prosecution is a long time, career prosecutor with the internal authority to conduct this prosecution, separate and aside from his role in the Special Counsel’s Office.

This means that Andrew Weissmann, the prosecutor leading the Manafort arm of the investigation, can continue to to pursue it, even if Mueller himself is fired.

And there may be more similar arrangements that we don't know about, since Mueller has declared several of his lead prosecutors "Assistant Special Counsels".

edited 9th Apr '18 9:36:44 AM by megaeliz

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#237998: Apr 9th 2018 at 7:40:57 AM

Not at all saying that Mueller is evil, but that reminded of this Order of the Stick strip, in terms of Special Counsel evidently being run on a "frontarchy" system.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#237999: Apr 9th 2018 at 7:41:13 AM

Which is a good move. Trump might take action against Mueller to try and end the investigation, but Mueller's taken steps to ensure it would continue in his absence. And if Trump continues going after the investigation, any claim that it was totes about Mueller having conflicts of interest or whatever dries up.

I agree with what was posted a few pages ago. Trump is playing Tic-Tac-Toe. Problem for him is, Mueller's not.

edited 9th Apr '18 7:41:41 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#238000: Apr 9th 2018 at 8:00:04 AM

[up] Since Mueller is apparently a known lover of ice hockey, I'd argue that a more appropriate anology is that Trump immediately falls on his butt as soon as he steps on the ice, while at the same time insisting that he's "the most tremendous hockey player, the best hockey player."

edited 9th Apr '18 8:02:01 AM by megaeliz


Total posts: 417,856
Top