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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237301: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:05:31 AM

[up][up] We got some serious #Mueller Time today, and this is just the fish.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#237302: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:06:47 AM

[up][up] Last I checked, the military (with the exception of the Coast Guard, and if you count militias, the National Guard) doesn't have legal jurisdiction in the US outside of military bases. So Trump would have to violate that in order to get the military to defend his idiotic wall.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:08:47 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#237303: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:09:23 AM

[up]Can he declare the wall one long military base? [lol]

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#237304: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:12:16 AM

We aren't allowed to be called up to enforce laws except in the case of martial law being called, and in the case of the National Guard, under order of our respective state governors. Seriously, Mattis was standing right there, could he not have distracted Trump with some shiny thing to stop him from talking?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#237305: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:14:32 AM

On the one hand, the military is expressly forbidden from enforcing domestic law under Posse Comitatus.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure securing a nation's borders is one of the primary functions of military, so I doubt Posse Comitatus actually applies in this context.

Meanwhile, one of the few scenarios in which Posse Comitatus can legally be disregarded is when the governor of a state requests military assistance, at which point they're clear to go. The law basically exists to limit the federal government's ability to stop southern states from lynching blacks by kicking out all their soldiers unless the state's cool with them being there.

Even if Posse Comitatus applies here, all Trump needs to do is have Greg Abbott formally request military aid in securing the border and he's good to go. After all, Posse Comitatus is meant to enable racist murders, not prevent them.

So, legally speaking, I'm pretty sure Trump can actually have his dream of Army soldiers gunning down Mexicans in the desert. There's not much we can really do on this one.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:16:05 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237306: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:21:16 AM

And Even more Mueller news. (I swear, we need a Mueller investigation wiki)

Robert Mueller investigating the work of Israeli start-up Wikistrat that has undertaken projects for the United Arab Emirates note 

Thread:

1.BREAKING: Mueller has been asking questions about Wikistrat, a private consulting firm that has undertaken projects for the UAE. Mueller's also been asking questions about its two founders, Joel Zamel and Daniel Green.

2. Wikistrat was founded in Israel in 2010 and is now based in DC. lawyer for the founders says "Joel and Wikistrat have only a tenuous connection to the special counsel’s investigation and are cooperating fully." Sure, Jan.

3. When Mueller starts asking questions, about a company and its founders, it means they are DIRECTLY involved in one of the areas of the probe. In this case, UAE as we know means? GEORGE NADER. Who flipped. And was granted immunity in exchange for singing like a birdie.

4. In fact, surprise surprise (NOT): "Mr. Zamel has informally met with Mr. Mueller’s team, according to a person familiar with the matter, and was asked questions about his business relationship with George Nader". You don't say.

5. The person described Mr. Zamel’s relationship with Mr. Nader, who has been cooperating with the Mueller investigation since earlier this year, as “arms’ length.” Oh, another big surprise. Not.

6. "Mr. Mueller’s team also asked Mr. Zamel questions about his work, including for certain clients, the person said. The ultimate target of this line of inquiry is unknown." Oh? Let me spell it out for you: JARED KUSHNER.

7. And on top of Jared Kushner, there's RUSSIA, bc the Seychelles meeting that Erik Prince (As in Betsy De Vos's brother) attended, that he lied multiple times about, was brokered by the UAE, and NADER told Mueller all about it.

8. Lest we forget: the Russia problem also comes up where Prince is related bc he is ALSO involved in that pesky little matter of the Trump tower server communicating with HIS company, Spectrum Health, and Alpha Bank. (just an aside but important to remember).

9. According to people familiar with the firm’s work, Wikistrat was contracted by the U.A.E. beginning in 2015 to conduct war game scenarios on Islamist political movements in Yemen.

10. Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. both entered the Yemeni civil war in early 2015, aiming to combat an Islamist insurgency. Conflict still ongoing.

11. Then Wikistrat turned into a sort of "intelligence light" company for the UAE, "using local on-the-ground sources to anticipate threats." Doesn't sound shady at all, does it?

12. Now, you all well remember how JARED KUSHNER made those mysterious trips to the UAE, and how their price came into the US WITHOUT notifying the Obama administration (which violates protocols) to meet with Trump transition in NYC, right?

13. You also DO remember how KUSHNER went to knock on the Qatari's door for a LOAN and when he DID NOT obtain it, suddenly the US backed a BLOCKADE against Qatar? note: Qatar is normally a close US ally. But hey, no loan? We lead the blockade. THAT is corruption.

13. You also DO remember how KUSHNER went to knock on the Qatari's door for a LOAN and when he DID NOT obtain it, suddenly the US backed a BLOCKADE against Qatar? note: Qatar is normally a close US ally. But hey, no loan? We lead the blockade. THAT is corruption.

15. WSJ is all "The extent and nature of Mr. Zamel’s relationship with Mr. Nader is unclear. A person familiar with the matter said the two have “done some business together.”" Oh we're well past that, darlings. Nader is the centre, and Kushner is the target.

16. Kind reminder that Nader, on top of "greeting UAE officials" when they went to meet with Trump transition without telling the Obama administration, also had multiple WH meetings later, with BANNON AND KUSHNER.

17. So yet again, in case it isn't clear? Kushner is EVERYWHERE in this story and he was the PRIME reason why US policy suddenly shifted against Qatar and in favor of UAE. (Bc he got no loan from Qatar, and bonus points, this pleases Putin).

18. ALSO, in case people forgot: "Nader also has close ties to Republican fundraiser Elliott Broidy, who has informally discussed with the White House issues related to U.A.E., a country where he has business interests." Broidy IS RAISING money for Trump even NOW.

19. Without getting into Broidy that has no ties to Wikistrat that we know of, and that's what THIS story is about, this ties an Israeli start-up to the UAE dirty business with Trump AND to Russia conspiracy, bc Seychelles meeting, brokered by the UAE. Isn't that fancy.

20. Now for the comedic part: "Wikistrat was founded by Messrs. Zamel and Green in 2010, and they described the company as “Wikipedia meets Facebook ” . Well THAT IS PROMISING, considering the current situation. A recipe for Russia conspiracy. 😂😂😂

21. Mueller's lesson for today "what you've never heard of, or seems detached and far away from Trump, is KEY to uncovering conspiracy." See: Van der Zwaan. The UAE is smack in the middle of the conspiracy, directly involving Kushner (and Trump, obviously).

22. This is why Mueller flipped Nader and why Nader is key. Bc Nader is a key advisor to UAE de-facto ruler, AND the UAE brokered the Seychelles meeting between Prince and? Putin's cabana boy Dmitriev. See Here

23. In short, this new bit about Mueller looking into Wikistrat and its founders means they MUST be directly involved in UAE dealings with Trump, that as explained, happened under a tent of PURE aggravated corruption, courtesy of Kushner.

23. In short, this new bit about Mueller looking into Wikistrat and its founders means they MUST be directly involved in UAE dealings with Trump, that as explained, happened under a tent of PURE aggravated corruption, courtesy of Kushner.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#237307: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:21:18 AM

[up[up]]Other than hope that the Pentagon talks him down (this would be a huge expense, a logistical strain and a PR nightmare). Or that only a few troops get deployed in a symbolic gesture.

Still, there's a chance that the military might be gentler than ICE and co, given that they are used to working with restrictive ROE and their superiors aren't keen on pissing away their reputation.

[up]Mueller is definitely onto to something big, but who gets fully ensnared in the end I wonder...

And of course, if Trump tries to fire him and/or do a mass pardoning (particularly after people get charged but not convicted), the reaction to that is the ultimate stress test for rule of law in the US.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:26:38 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#237308: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:32:15 AM

Last I checked, the military (with the exception of the Coast Guard, and if you count militias, the National Guard) doesn't have legal jurisdiction in the US outside of military bases. So Trump would have to violate that in order to get the military to defend his idiotic wall.

It's an interesting irony to see a modern Republican president essentially calling for the death of the Posse Comitatus Act, which is what forbids the government from using the Armed Forces to enforce domestic policy, and which is what Right Wing Militia Fanatics and sovereign citizens love to use to declare that the Federal government doesn't have any legal sway and they acknowledge nothing but their local government/peace officers at most.

The "sovereign citizen" movement is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posse Comitatus in the 1970s. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing government in the United States is illegitimate and they seek to "restore" an idealized, minimalist government that never actually existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using "paper terrorism" harassment and intimidation tactics, and occasionally resorting to violence.

...

beginning in the late 1960s, a number of right-wing fringe groups formed that questioned the authority and nature of the federal government. Most grew out of a recently emergent right-wing tax-protest movement: arguments about the illegitimacy of income tax laws were easily expanded or altered to challenge the legitimacy of the government itself. The most important of these groups was the Posse Comitatus,1 which originated in Oregon and California around 1970.

Members of the Posse Comitatus believed that the county was the true seat of government in the United States. They did not deny the legal existence of federal or state governments, but rather claimed that the county level was the "highest authority of government in our Republic as it is closest to the people." The basic Posse manual stated that there had been "subtle subversion" of the Constitution by various arms and levels of government, especially the judiciary. There was, in fact, a "criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, disfranchise citizens and liquidate the Constitutional Republic of these United States."

The Posse wanted to reverse this subversion and "restore" the Republic through (1) unilateral actions by the people (i.e., the Posse) and (2) actions by the county sheriff. The sheriff, they argued, was the only constitutional law enforcement officer. Moreover, his most important role was to protect the people from the unlawful acts of officials of governments like judges and government agents. Should a sheriff refuse to carry out such duties, the people (i.e., the Posse) had the right to hang him. In fact, the two most prominent Posse symbols became a sheriff's badge and a hangman's noose.

The Posse reached its peak in the early 1980s when a farm crisis in the Midwest allowed Posse leaders to recruit among angry and desperate farmers. By this time Posse ideology had developed into an elaborate theory involving an original, utopian form of government based upon "common law" (the "de jure" government) that had been subverted and replaced with an illegitimate, tyrannical government (the "de facto" government). Americans obeyed the de facto government, because they had been tricked into believing it was legitimate.

Although the basic Posse philosophy was anti-government in nature rather than hate-filled, many leaders of Posse groups were virulent racists. The Posse's revisionist ideas about government and conspiracy were especially attractive to Christian Identity believers; as a result, many Identity adherents, including William Potter Gale, James Wickstrom, Gordon Kahl, Bob Hallstrom and Thomas Stockheimer, among others, became involved in the Posse or similar groups. The result was that Posse ideology was often, though by no means always, imbued with racist and anti-Semitic as well as anti-government language, reflecting the movement's increasing violence and criminal activity. In the early 1980s, Posse members and sympathizers became involved in a number of shootings, standoffs, fraud schemes and other criminal activities. The most notorious incident involved Gordon Kahl, a North Dakota Posse leader, Christian Identity adherent and activist in the "township" movement (which advocated forming civil bodies independent of outside control, a tactic the Montana Freemen would resurrect in 1996). When United States marshals attempted to arrest Kahl in 1983 for violating his probation, he opened fire, killing two officers and wounding others before escaping. Four months later, he was tracked to an Arkansas farmhouse, where he died in a second shootout that also took the life of a sheriff.

Posse Comitatus was also the rallying cry for Cliven Bundy and his jagoff family/followers.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:34:47 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237309: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:48:52 AM

it's interesting how van der Zwaan was sentenced for a relatively minor charge, lying to the FBI.

He's a relatively minor player here, and it's a relatively minor sentence (one month in jail and a fine), but it definitely sends message to everyone else who's involved in this case.

If you lie to me or the institutions that I have dedicated my life to, I will know, and I won't hesitate to bring charges against you, and if you don't cooperate with me, you will go to jail.

edited 3rd Apr '18 12:04:27 PM by megaeliz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#237310: Apr 3rd 2018 at 11:52:45 AM

Still, there's a chance that the military might be gentler than ICE and co, given that they are used to working with restrictive ROE and their superiors aren't keen on pissing away their reputation.

That chance is fairly slim. The Pentagon talking him down might happen, but if this does go through, then I have faith in Trump's ability to find the absolute worst people.

Not every soldier is a bloodthirsty asshole and not every general is a murder-happy racist. But I have few doubts that the people that would get assigned to shoot down Mexicans would be exactly the kind of people who would be more than happy to shoot down Mexicans. I have no doubts about Trump's ability to sniff out the most Sheriff Joe-esque person in the Army and assign him to the task.

edited 3rd Apr '18 11:53:15 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#237311: Apr 3rd 2018 at 12:34:10 PM

I wouldn't worry about that. Even if he were to send troops (which he could do; Bush and Obama did), they couldn't do enforcement action. It'd just be extra bodies watching the border.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#237312: Apr 3rd 2018 at 12:39:58 PM

Yeah, it'd probably be the national guard sent like with Bush and Obama. What they usually do is fly surveillance aircraft that law enforcement agencies don't have access to.

I personally doubt anything will really happen though. This seems like more bluster.

edited 3rd Apr '18 12:40:29 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#237313: Apr 3rd 2018 at 12:43:04 PM

thread by @ALT_uscis, that addresses a lot of things people were talking about here.

Trump: "We are going to be guarding the border with the Military until we get a wall"

The Posse Comitatus Act limits the Guard troops to acting only in support of the U.S. Border Patrol, and state and local law enforcement officers.

but hey don't let laws stop you

Both Obama and bush sent national guards to the border. The difference is: members monitored border crossings and analyzed intelligence in support of the Border Patrol.

They were always support missions, not leading.

if he wants to write off Posse Comitatus I am ok with sending guards to all border crossings including airports, WHILE abolishing CBP (take ICE too). Let TSA handle grandma smuggling hummus. At least the military are under jus in bello & UCMJ (International humanitarian law)

Based on this, they might actually be an improvement to the awfulness that is ICE.

edited 3rd Apr '18 12:51:15 PM by megaeliz

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#237315: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:08:04 PM

Brown, who lives in Nampa, says he wants to be taken seriously as a candidate. He has run, perennially and unsuccessfully, for several offices over the years. He frequently says he has orders from God to become president of the United States. For proof, he has a 1997 notarized statement from a bishop in Kenya confirming that “God did indeed tell Harley D. Brown that He would make him the Commander in Chief.”
Brother, if God Almighty couldn't manage to get you elected with twenty years of trying, you maybe wanna think about getting out of politics.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#237316: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:09:23 PM

[up]

As a Christian, well...if somebody says this, they're usually nuts.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#237317: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:13:30 PM

But he has a note. From a Kenyan Bishop. It's notarized.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#237318: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:14:20 PM

I couldn't help but think he's Idaho's own equivalent of Roy Moore. Though being reminded of him I wonder if Ted Cruz isn't the better comparison

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#237319: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:27:21 PM

This guy never got to relatively high office, and sounds like more bark than bite. Cruz and Moore have actually hurt people with their positions.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#237320: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:35:20 PM

Is Trump's notion of using the army and the Defence Ministry's money to fund his wall or enforce the border with Mexico really going to go over well with his conservative base? I was under the impression that they cared deeply about the military's funding, and this sure does strike me as Trump wasting the military's resources and money to implement his pointless vanity project.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#237321: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:35:58 PM

CNN just broke that there is an active shooter at You Tube HQ, in San Francisco.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#237322: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:36:17 PM

[up][up][up][up] Isn't Idaho where most of the older Neo-Nazis originated? Nowadays, though, nearby Montana is even worse (Richard Spencer and by association the Alt-Right originated in Montana, and there is a reason Far Cry 5 takes place there).

edited 3rd Apr '18 1:37:08 PM by Wariolander

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#237323: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:39:06 PM

Possible active shooter situation at YouTube headquarters.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#237324: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:39:06 PM

[up];[up][up][up]

Callous as it is, I give it 5:1 odds of being a disgruntled employee, 15:1 that it's politically-motivated, and 30:1 odds that the specific Political motivation is their ban on gun promotional videos, as the irony of using a gun to murder people over the company's stance on videos promoting them would be dripping.

[down]

God dammit, as if I didn't have enough reasons to think of BoJack Horseman's "Thoughts And Prayers" episode. Though if Life Imitates Art, maybe that would be what prompts Congress to act.

edited 3rd Apr '18 1:44:48 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Wariolander Since: Nov, 2017
#237325: Apr 3rd 2018 at 1:41:31 PM

Apparently it's a female white shooter. The white part makes me think it's a political attack, but them being female bring up some questions. How many female shooters have we had?

edited 3rd Apr '18 1:42:54 PM by Wariolander


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