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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#236526: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:10:01 AM

Imagine Trump's budget getting passed and then he can't even get a public defender because the government can't afford to hire any more and the rest are too backlogged.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#236527: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:10:26 AM

[up][up][up] Not without wanting to exploit the fame such a trial will inevitably bring (or fear it as a reason to keep the hell away)

edited 25th Mar '18 9:10:34 AM by sgamer82

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#236528: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:11:04 AM

It's amazing that 70% of respondents think armed guards are actually going to help.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236529: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:11:23 AM

[up][up][up]If this administration is going to screw our public defenders anyway, it would at least be karmic if it backfires on Trump.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:11:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#236530: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:12:38 AM

[up][up]Classic "good guy with a gun" fallacy.

Growing up in suburban MA, it wasn't the cops who occasionally did some walk-abouts through our high school, it was the fact that Massachusetts, not to mention our town, had strict gun control and gun ownership laws, that let parents and students sleep soundly.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:14:25 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236531: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:15:43 AM

M84: I did see that on 538, I think it’s something a lot of people neglect when talking about the AWB and crime rates.

The main problem is that the US gun market is a very different beast than it was back then, and a similar ban would me much much less effective now.

Rather than regulating via some sort of nebulous category I’d rather just see regulation for guns as a whole.

They should have sent a poet.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#236532: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:19:01 AM

I'm definitely in support of gun laws that affect firearms as a whole, not ones that are specifically targeted for whatever type is currently scaring people. I mean, I'm not going to be like, "Oh, that crazed shooter's got his Glock, not his AR-15. Everything's fine, guys!"

Still, we have to start somewhere.

"No more" or we vote you out. Can't wait for them to start voting in this coming election.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:21:35 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#236533: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:25:25 AM

I also think there (should be) a noted difference between a nebulous "good guy (civilian) with a gun" and a "trained officer of the law wearing a uniform".

edited 25th Mar '18 9:25:40 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#236534: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:26:03 AM

"Vote them out!" was a popular chant during the rally.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236535: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:29:18 AM

[up][up][up]I think a better starting point would be background checks, which also have a lot of popular support. An assault weapons ban at the federal level just doesn’t make sense any more.

[up][up]Let’s not forget that not all LE Os are “good guys with guns” to begin with.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:29:38 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#236536: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:30:42 AM

Thus the "should be". The police desperately need to be reformed, but that's another issue.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#236537: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:32:35 AM

Explicitly putting armed guards in a school is just giving one guy a painted target on his back: "Shoot me first!"

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#236538: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:36:08 AM

If only everyone would come at it at the ‘people kill people’ angle... banning assault weapons isn’t really the answer, it’s treating guns like cars and requiring a license to own. Take a psychology exam every so often, tests on gun safety and have an inspection on your secure storage of said guns so no one else can get them. Pass those then own all the guns you want.

Waits on background checks would be unnecessary as well as an up to date license would be enough.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#236539: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:36:28 AM

That's a risk with armed guards anywhere, but in this case, it also reveals a lack of appreciation for how premeditated school shootings can be.

Honestly, I would think that not turning schools into concentration camps ought to be reason enough not to pursue the option.

[up]Let's say a gun is improperly stored. What are the consequences if that's discovered during an inspection? Fines? Confiscation? An accessible firearm is a threat to public safety.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:38:18 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#236540: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:38:13 AM

Well, ideally, you'd want to have more than one. There have been a couple guys working security at both schools I've been to, and they were friendly and helpful if you needed directions or an escort, and they would spring into action effectively if a fight broke out. Maybe don't give them guns, however. A taser would work just as well and be much more non-lethal.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#236541: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:41:14 AM

My school had two cops stationed in an office, and they were friendly, sure, but I don't think anyone really ever had faith in them to deliver us from a school shooting. It was simply that gun ownership was deliberately minimized through local and state law. Like, a gun owner has to provide a written justification to the police chief why they need a gun stored in their residence.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#236542: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:41:37 AM

I am still waiting for an explanation for how armed guards will deter someone who is fully prepared and often expecting to die.

Same question I ask to people who talk about executing terrorists (after asking why they want to make martyrs of them just like they want).

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#236543: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:42:07 AM

[up][up][up][up] Confiscation.

All those rules I listed are what you need to do every 2 years to own a hunting rifle in Japan and it works.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:44:25 AM by Memers

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#236544: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:43:30 AM

I think it's less about deterrence and more about stopping it while it's happening before it gets too bad. Granted, there are about a billion other gun control laws that should take precedence over this comparatively minor thing.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#236545: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:44:31 AM

It's also kind of what happens in Switzerland too. But that doesn't stop the pro-gun crowd holding up the entire country as some sort of paradise of deregulated firearms.

And apparently said fantasy version of the country is the only foreign country that is allowed to be cited in debate. Pointing out how gun control helped in the UK or Australia or elsewhere isn't relevant.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236546: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:44:51 AM

Even if a police officer might not present a literal threat to a shooter there’s also the psychological deterrent effect to consider.

As far as storage laws, a lot of places have those. Canada requires your gun to be stored disassembeled, and some places in Europe require proof of purchase of a safe before you can buy a gun. I think those would be good here, since a decent proportion of gun deaths in the US are accidental and come from improper handling and storage.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:45:43 AM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#236547: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:46:05 AM

How do you psychologically deter someone who is fully prepared to die?

I'm just going to quote something from one of yesterday's signs:

"'The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun' just sounds like someone trying to sell two guns"

"Yup. That tasted purple."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236548: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:49:11 AM

I believe it’s somewhat similar to the effect fences on bridges have, or “security theater” on apartment buildings. It’s not so much the actual effect so much as it is the appearance of one.

They should have sent a poet.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#236549: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:50:14 AM

Security theatre is about making people feel safer, not putting people off trying.

edited 25th Mar '18 9:50:25 AM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236550: Mar 25th 2018 at 9:53:46 AM

It’s a little bit of both! I’m looking for it now, but there’s a study floating around that showed that installing non-functional security camera decreased the rates of break ins in an area. The appearance of security or very simple barriers can be an effective deterrent.

I’m not sure how true that would be in the case of school shootings, but there have been cases where shooters simply went home after encountering locked doors.

They should have sent a poet.

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