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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236226: Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:42:15 PM

[up][up][up] This is one case where I think Hanlon's Razor may be the more likely explanation. People make little mistakes like this all the time. And sometimes it has significant consequences.

edited 22nd Mar '18 8:42:29 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236227: Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:43:15 PM

[up][up] They're not really on Trump's side though, ultimately they could care less whether he succeeds or fails. The goal is just to undermine US institutions and sow general chaos.

And Putin knows that the worst the Democrats could do is another round of sanctions, if even that. He's not gonna get nuked over this.

[up] I guess. This is just so remarkably similar to old KGB tactics it could well be intentional.

edited 22nd Mar '18 8:44:15 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#236228: Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:46:09 PM

[up] Not just sanctions - any post-Trump US government might feel just vengeful enough to try their hand at cyber warfare themselves.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#236229: Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:46:36 PM

Russia's got a GDP and an economy so dependent on exports of arms and oil we can turn it into a third world country before 2021 if we wanted.

Those sanctions hurt them badly. Not to mention we can get serious about making sure they start losing ground in the middle east and eastern europe in general.

Oh really when?
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236231: Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:55:12 PM

Yeah, the cyberwar pretty much already happened/is happening.

The thing is, they're hoping they're going to win here. The idea is that they're able to destabilize us to the point where we're unable to meaningfully respond. You have to consider it from their point of view because their conception of this is very different from ours, sanctions and cyberwar for them are just an extension of actual war. Political warfare is treated with the same hand a kinetic conflict is treated with, rather than it being a different domain.

I really wonder what plans they have for their economy though. Arms will always be a decent business, but with the rise of alternative energy they won't be able to prop themselves up off oil and natural gas for much longer.

edited 22nd Mar '18 8:56:14 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236232: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:21:30 PM

Speaking of the Russia and the Omnibus bill, according to the Hamilton 64 Dashboard, tags that are opposed to it are getting a boast by the Russian Bots.

(I wouldn't say it's terrible for the Dems though. Each side managed to get something out of it and had to make consessions, and is probably the closest thing to actual legitmate compromising and working out of issues that we've had in a long time.).

edited 22nd Mar '18 9:24:03 PM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236233: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:25:44 PM

[up] Expect the media to go with the "Democratic Party caved" narrative again anyway though.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236235: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:34:52 PM

[up] This can't keep happening.

here's my tweet about it from earlier in the day

Amusingly, it was immediately retweeted by this obvious bot account, and got what looks like another one, in the comments.

edited 22nd Mar '18 9:37:43 PM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236236: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:36:00 PM

[up][up] It's immensely disheartening that I had to read the article to remind myself which school shooting this was. There have been so many.

[up]It shouldn't keep happening. But it can and will.

edited 22nd Mar '18 9:36:26 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#236237: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:39:14 PM

It can't be allowed to keep happening.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236238: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:45:08 PM

Now that I think about it, what's the chances that Russian disinformation networks had a hand in seeding and promoting Pizzagate?

edited 22nd Mar '18 9:45:20 PM by megaeliz

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236239: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:48:13 PM

[up] Plausible. Based on what we know they tend to go for anything inflammatory. The main planks of their military deceptions are disguise, imitation, simulation, deception, and demonstration. Everything they do will fall into one of those categories.

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236240: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:49:37 PM

[up][up]I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#236241: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:56:05 PM

My guess is that they didn't start it, but that they leapt on it like vultures once they saw the value in spreading it.

edited 22nd Mar '18 9:56:17 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236242: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:59:08 PM

[up] Agreed. They generally don't start stuff, but prefer to amplify already existing but fridge voices into the mainstream.

[up][up][up] This article is worth a read. It lays out a timeline for Russian Active Measures, and influence operations.

It identifies Russian linked Social Media accounts first starting to establish themselves infiltrate audiences in america between Fall 2014 to Summer 2015. Summer 2015 was the actual influence campaign really began.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:02:27 PM by megaeliz

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#236243: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:01:17 PM

I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Ditto what M84 said. At the very least I will bet they provided a major signal boost to a stupid ass conspiracy theory and got it much more attention than it would have anyway.

It was Cernovich who was behind that whole debacle in the first place, right? And Cernovich and the alt-Reich are major fellators of Putin and Russia, to the point that "Russia is our friend!" was one of their chants in Charlottesville right next their money lines like "Blood and Soil!" and "Jews will not replace us!"

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia bots and trolls are hard at work amplifying the message of those crazies day and night, especially since it fits so well (hand in glove, even) with a lot of the racist, nationalist, and xenophobic beliefs that are major themes in Putin's Russia.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:02:29 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236244: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:02:59 PM

[up][up] It really started well before then. This isn't a new phenomenon by any means, we've been dealing with this since the 50s and 60s in one form or another. The online angle is new, but the strategies themselves are well worn and well rehearsed.

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236245: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:05:07 PM

[up] Well, this particular campaign at least.

The actual strategies themselves are simply giving a new coat of paint to the old Soviet Playbook.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:09:34 PM by megaeliz

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#236246: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:08:23 PM

[up] Even this particular campaign is essentially a continuation of the black propaganda distributed in the 80s and early 90s. Without having more information it's hard to say, but I'd bet that an analyst now is looking at essentially the same stuff we used to look at back then.

It's all basically the same deal. I mentioned the different parts of military deception earlier, everything they do fits into that mold. Once you see the pattern you can see that they're basically running the same operations over and over again, with minor variations.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:09:29 PM by archonspeaks

They should have sent a poet.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#236247: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:17:59 PM

[up] Exactly. The only thing that's really changed is the reach. Same goals, same tactics, new tech.

It's actually noted in this podcast about it

This as well

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:26:44 PM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#236248: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:24:36 PM

The sad thing is that the reason they keep repeating these tactics is because they work.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Imca (Veteran)
#236249: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:53:56 PM

So I know some people were curious, a friend of mine has found some one who kept track.

A list of every one trump has fired, along with dates

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#236250: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:55:16 PM

[up]And. Saved.

Your friend's service is appreciated.smile

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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