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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#193251: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:23:44 PM

[up][up][up]I'm aware of that. I mentioned in my first post this only works if you buy into the idea of states as distinct entities that warrant equal political representation on some level (along with the other, more practical constraints). I get why people would disagree with that, but for now I lean more in that direction.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:26:43 PM by LSBK

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#193252: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:25:14 PM

I'd be willing to increase the number by 50+ and then have district lines redrawn by a completely non-partisan computer algorithm, as a start and see how it functions thereafter.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#193253: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:25:48 PM

I think a decent compromise would be for states to function as regional administrators. The Federal government passes laws and regulations and the states are responsible for figuring out how to meet the standards that they're given. They can go above and beyond these standards provided they don't infringe on certain rights but everything else is out of their control.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#193254: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:28:48 PM

Huff Post and other online outlets running a video of Trump "blowing a kiss" to James Comey. Particularly ironic now that Trump fired him.

Article in question. The accompanying video shows Trump pursing his lips when he invites Comey over to him for some a hug and back pats. This was not long after the inauguration, and the article is there mostly to remind readers that Comey's actions regarding the email scandal contributed to Trump's election victory.

The U.K. Daily Mail report that Niel Gorsuch, Trump's first nominee to the Supreme Court, had run a "Facism Forever Club" during high school. It was a joke in his yearbook entry.

This is correct, but I will point out that no one here ever takes the Daily Mail as a credible source.

CNN reporting that Nancy Sinatra wasn't happy about Trump using "My Way". Sinatra tweeted "Why do you lie, CNN?"

Article in question. Note that the article was updated with its own response to Sinatra's tweet, pointing out she deleted the previous tweet that had the reaction to Trump using the song that the original CNN article was based on.

The Washington Post blasting Trump for giving a speech in front of the "sacrosanct" CIA Memorial Wall. Obama did the same thing without complaint.

As someone else already pointed out, it was the content of his speech, not to mention that he had staffers put around the room to applaud for him, that earned scorn, not the act of giving a speech itself.

A Time reporter saying that Trump had removed the bust of Martin Luther King Jr. from the Oval Office. It hadn't been.

This is true, and the article was redacted and apologized for. The explanation was that the bust had been covered from view by someone standing in the way when people were examining pictures of the redecorated Oval Office.

The AP report that Trump was about to mobilize 100,000 National Guard troops to remove immigrants. Completely false.

Article in question. The article does NOT say Trump is about to mobalize the National Guard. It says that the Department of Homeland Security was considering it based on a leaked memo. Trump denied that the plan was being put into action, but never that it hadn't been under consideration. the DHS didn't deny it was real, only that it was a very rough draft of a plan that never reached the Sec. of HS.

The NPR report that Kuwait's ambassador was holding his National Day party at the Trump hotel and that the president would be there. In fact the Kuwaitis where there the week before Trump was.

Article in question. At no point does the article even imply Trump would be dropping by the party. The entire article is about the conflict of interests Trump has when foreign government officials patronize his businesses.

Of the seven alleged "Anti-Trump Media Lies" stories listed, one was from a news site of completely unreliable accuracy, one was an genuine mistake that was redacted, and the rest are deliberate distortions of factual news stories. That last accusation against NPR in particular I noticed was widely circulated by right wing websites, so I'm curious as to where this list is coming from.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:30:57 PM by Parable

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193255: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:29:58 PM

I'm not arguing against the idea that the actual balance of power needs tweaking. I want the Electoral College gone; it didn't act as a brake against Donald taking office and that was the last reason I thought maybe it might be worth keeping around. The weight of Congressional representation per state is a math discussion I have nothing useful to contribute to.

Other than that though, the why of states rights is one part "because of the crap that's happening now that we need to resist and be able to do so somewhat legally without being considered in rebellion and deserving of having federal troops sicced on us" and one part "we're too big for one size fits all government". I don't see why there has to be another "why".

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#193257: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:40:18 PM

[up][up] But why does not administering it in a unitary manner/having a means to apply local laws (hell, the UK manages to have that, bylaws are odd) require that every state—a geographic division set up in a manner that can practically never be altered—be treated as equal? They're manifestly not and the representation issue flips it on its head.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:40:30 PM by RainehDaze

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#193258: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:42:50 PM

I think state administration is meaningful on the level of laws regarding trade and logistical matters, since those will inevitably vary by region and clime. I don't think they should be abolished altogether.

For example coastal states will obviously have very different needs and regulations from landlocked ones, and New Mexico probably will need different laws regulating the use of water and things like that compared to Michigan.

Policies regarding general rights such as workplace discrimination and same-sex marriage should be the same across the nation though.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:53:19 PM by AlleyOop

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#193259: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:44:51 PM

I can envision better state-level climate policies tailor-made to their respective landscape and industries with a overarching national policy keeping everything reigned in tightly enough if they'd get their heads out of their asses over the matter.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#193260: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:45:08 PM

Also, in the case of Huff Po, while the headline is fairly silly-sounding and the article mostly just a way to remind people of Comey's actions, the thread has in the past criticized Huff Po as being overly sensationalist and we tend to prefer another more reliable source to be linked.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193261: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:45:23 PM

All I am arguing for is the need to protect a state's ability to resist the enforcement of a bad law/bad executive. Everything else is details which I don't have a coherent opinion for or against.

And even that I'll grant is flawed when states turn it against citizens. I dunno what it would take to fix, maybe a constitutional amendment that enshrines "states rights can't trump human rights" into law.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#193262: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:46:14 PM

The right wing twitterverse is calling this incident "left wing terrorism", and using it to claim that the left encourages violence.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#193263: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:51:15 PM

I personally just want a different, possibly higher rep/population ratio. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the cap.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#193264: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:51:57 PM

[up][up]I mean, that's not wrong, as far as it goes. The problem is in implying it's true for the left in a way that it's not for every other political ideology.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:52:16 PM by Gilphon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#193265: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:53:33 PM

The problem with making a Constitutional Amendment that states that "states rights cannot trump human rights" is that the meaning of the word "trump" may reverse in the very near future.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:55:21 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193266: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:55:57 PM

Har har. But obviously IANAL and the real thing would be written and checked by actual lawyers for correct phrasing.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#193267: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:03:40 PM

New Rule: the word "trump" shall be stricken from the English language. Instead, use synonyms like "overrule" "surpass" "defeat" etc. (Naturally, the official rules for the card game Bridge will need to be re-written...)

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#193268: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:04:42 PM

I'd argue that it's already the law that states can't legally override what the federal government legally considers your rights.

Leviticus 19:34
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#193269: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:11:39 PM

[up]And we see how well that works in practice.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#193270: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:13:34 PM

I think a decent compromise would be for states to function as regional administrators. The Federal government passes laws and regulations and the states are responsible for figuring out how to meet the standards that they're given. They can go above and beyond these standards provided they don't infringe on certain rights but everything else is out of their control.

No way. That gives the federal government too much power.

I'd rather the states be given more local autonomy with the federal government policing them if they go over the line and serving as an arbiter between the states.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193271: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:19:41 PM

You could argue it's covered by the 9th Amendment ("The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.") but arguing stuff based on the 9th amendment is rare and difficult and it has not historically succeeded in preventing states from upholding abusive laws.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#193272: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:23:00 PM

The US needs to strictly define exactly what is Federally controlled and what is State controlled. In Canada the provinces are actually more autonomous than the states in the US, (for example, Quebec has an entirely separate legal system from the rest of the country) but the Constitution Act of 1982, as well as the previous constitutional documents pretty much flatly state who gets what. Like, in Canada, the Federal government gets to decide who gets married. The most the provinces can do is decide on the exact legal process of marriage, but it has to apply to everyone the Federal government says can get married without exception.

edited 14th Jun '17 3:23:44 PM by Zendervai

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#193273: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:23:30 PM

[up][up][up] Can you step back for me and explain how the federal government can have too much power, without making the default assumption that the states should individually have the level of autonomy they already do?

edited 14th Jun '17 3:23:45 PM by RainehDaze

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#193274: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:23:40 PM

[up][up][up][up]I'd argue that many of our problems started because States have too many rights. It started with slavery and it continues to this day with abortion restrictions, voter ID laws, "religious freedom" laws, etc.

edited 14th Jun '17 3:24:11 PM by Kostya

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193275: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:26:42 PM

[up][up][up]Some of that is covered by the 10th amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.") but it gets murkier when you have a whole list of "implied" powers that the constitution doesn't explicitly grant but are need by the federal government to function under the constitution.

[up][up]State power has the ability to act like a firebreak. A federal government that becomes too repressive has its negative effect reduced by the protection given to the states.

The alternative is that a state that decides to go against the federal government on an issue could be declared in rebellion and possibly open themselves up to the rebellion being put down.

edited 14th Jun '17 3:34:27 PM by Elle


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