TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#193151: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:53:29 AM

[up][up]I feel sad in the sense that "we're all humans in the end and this shit shouldn't be happening in a civilized society". In a democracy, you drive out the people in power with ballots not bullets.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:53:53 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#193152: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:53:59 AM

@ LSBK: I'm being hyperbolic sadly. But as far as big stories go, it was this guy and that guy who the Bernie to Trump supporter that tried to kill Muslims.

And remember, on our side, we still have debates on whether or not it's morally right to punch a Nazi.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:55:20 AM by NoName999

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193153: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:54:18 AM

The claim that the GOP was an influence on Elliot Rodger really is reaching, especially when the fact that misogyny can be found on the far left as well.

http://time.com/114354/elliot-rodger-ucsb-misogyny/

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#193154: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:54:36 AM

It's depressing that that's the case. No one deserves to get openly fired on just for being part of a political ideology.

... I mean, I really want both alt-right and alt-left nutters to shut up and go away, but I don't want someone to start killing them.

Oissu!
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#193156: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:55:24 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] Yes. He denounced the act on his Facebook page, at least.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:55:48 AM by DrDougsh

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#193157: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:55:34 AM

[up][up][up][up]I get the impression that the far right misogyny specifically motivated this guy you're talking about, so the Lefts misogyny is irrelevant in this case

edited 14th Jun '17 10:57:37 AM by sgamer82

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#193158: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:56:00 AM

[up] x 3 Bernie is "sickened" by shooting.

[nja]'d

edited 14th Jun '17 10:56:33 AM by TheRoguePenguin

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193159: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:56:26 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Whataboutism? Seriously?

When did you see a post Civil Rights Democrat insist that women submit to men regardless of reason? When did one insist that the reason for men remaining single was other men stealing women from under their noses?

edited 14th Jun '17 10:56:56 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#193160: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:00:17 AM

The claim that the GOP was an influence on Elliot Rodger really is reaching, especially when the fact that misogyny can be found on the far left as well.

The GOP is the defining influence on the incel boys. They're the ones pushing the message that collection of creeps has absorbed. If you spent any time on the incel boards you'd know this—their posts are filled with rants about the declining moral values of the West, and how "Tyrone" is seducing white women away from them, and how feminism is the reason they can't get any, etc, etc, etc. All boilerplate misogynistic right wing talking points. Where the incels are uniquely deranged is the decisions they make based on those talking points; the ideas are nothing new and are standard right-wing discourse.

If you're going to try and debate this away, you're gonna need to try harder.

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193161: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:00:21 AM

I would like to bring up back in 2011, the shooting of Arizona Rep. Giffords was right away blamed on right wing rhetoric until it was found out the shooter was more complex in nature. So, the left can be just as exploitative in placing blame on others on the opposite side.

When people saying it's only the Right who does it, I would bring up past stories when they have done just the same thing.

[up]

While the far right should be look up as extreme, but on the other hand saying that the mainstream GOP would support the notion of minorities stealing white women and other things these groups believe in is not true. Declining morals is one talking point, but the other things you mention are actually just found in those groups.

https://www.google.com/search?q=shootings+blamed+on+right+wing+rhetoric&ei=2HhBWbP9OqGPjwSe2q6ACQ&start=10&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=662

edited 14th Jun '17 11:03:20 AM by firewriter

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193162: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:01:27 AM

[up]So you have no defense beyond "and you are lynching Negroes"? And you admit it?

At least you have that going for you.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Dravencour Since: Mar, 2015
#193163: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:03:11 AM

This shooter was a fucking idiot. Trying to murder anyone is not a good thing to begin with, but what this man did is only going to make things worse.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#193164: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:03:27 AM

Non shooting news from the WTF Just Happened Today feed:

1/ Almost 200 congressional Democrats will sue Trump over foreign business ties.

https://t.co/IgSlkKg3x8

2/ China preliminary approved six new trademarks for the Trump brand.

https://t.co/3PdQnRbvSn

3/ The majority of Trump’s real estate sales are to secretive shell companies.

https://t.co/Fp2Jsdu0fC

4/ Trump gave the Pentagon authority to unilaterally send new troops to Afghanistan.

https://t.co/dTzgi6tCWO

5/ Trump blocked the @votevets veterans group on Twitter that was critical of him.

https://t.co/cdeO6DXq6b

6/ A Trump business partner is in the running for a $1.7 billion contract to build the new FBI headquarters.

https://t.co/Q9QGZQsCzT

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#193165: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:04:21 AM

Actually.....I have noticed a pattern there. Left wing terrorist have a tendency for political targets or otherwise highly prolific targets. See the RAF. That is because they consider themselves as freedom fighters and the political class as suppressors. Right wing terrorists on the other hand have a tendency to attack minorities - and they are more cowardly about it, sneaking around at night to lay fire and picking mostly defenceless targets.

That is naturally not a fixed rule.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#193166: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:04:56 AM

Speaking of denouncing, has Sanders chimed in on this? Don't see any way he can't if the shooter was one of "his"

He has.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193167: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:05:22 AM

[up][up][up]You missed his blocking of Stephen King.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:05:41 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193168: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:05:59 AM

@ Krieger 22

What I am saying is that a lot of people have selective outrage on blaming others for rhetoric, and also claiming that their side is held to a higher standard.

@Swanpride14th

Actually the Oklahoma bombing would refute that notion, because it targeted a building instead of minorities.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:08:07 AM by firewriter

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#193169: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:07:29 AM

@Draven: the kinds of people who do these kinds of things have generally left behind long term planning and reasonable expectations of consequences. Calling them idiots is kind of assuming they're still using the same kind of reasoning that you or I are.

Regarding the whole politicizing this event: Democrats are shut down when nothing has happened in recent memory. They're shut down when they try to talk about recent tragedies. They're shut down just about every time they try to talk about gun violence. The Republicans shut down or prevent as many studies about gun violence as they can. At this point, there is NEVER going to be "a good time" to talk about this issue, so literally every time has to be the time to talk about gun violence. Otherwise we're going to get exactly to jack shit on the whole issue.

[up]The issue is that Republicans often let their guys have a pass over things that Democrats do. This is prevalent in both the current party and among many voters. You haven't exactly disproven that yet.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:08:50 AM by AceofSpades

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193171: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:07:51 AM

[up][up][up]Define "a lot".

You drop random links to thoughtpieces and Google and you expect to be taken as seriously as the longtime posters here.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:08:05 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#193173: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:11:20 AM

While the far right should be look up as extreme, but on the other hand saying that the mainstream GOP would support the notion of minorities stealing white women and other things these groups believe in is not true. Declining morals is one talking point, but the other things you mention are actually just found in those groups.

Here are some sample quotes from the motherfucker himself, caamib, one of the "intellectual lights" of the incel community, and a major influence on, and supporter of, Elliot Rodger. I will try to provide brief summations of his rantings for those who do not wish to click on the quotes; it will not be easy because he is about as coherent someone who has just seen Cthulhu.

Feminism is worse than the Holocaust/liberals only punish white rapists but not Muslims or blacks.

A woman being raped and murdered is good because it protects men from her.

Complaining Trump won't go far enough and return to full patriarchy.

Railing about how liberals want Muslims to rape and murder women but won't let white men in on the act.

Rape is a crime against a woman's father or husband, not against her.

Minorities are sacred classes to liberals, therapy is a religion, and "libtards" don't want white straight men to have anything.

If you can't draw the line between this trash—and there's more of it; so much more of it—and the stances of the modern conservative (or should that be modern reactionary?) movement, I'm not sure what to say to you. It's boilerplate GOP and FOX talking points, just taken to an insane, "even the rest of the alt-right is looking at you funny", extreme by the madness that is caamib and his goons.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:13:10 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#193174: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:26:39 AM

Not to mention that the original point wasn't even that the Rodgers shooting was inspired by the GOP, but that Republicans only give a shit about gun violence when they're the ones on the receiving end, which firewater has yet so far sidestepped in this case.

edited 14th Jun '17 11:27:40 AM by Wryte

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193175: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:29:08 AM

[up]

I don't see the GOP suggesting gun control as a solution as a whole during this incident, except for that one GOP member who is for gun control.


Total posts: 417,856
Top