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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#193126: Jun 14th 2017 at 9:55:16 AM

[up][up]Yeah, why would be afraid that the neofascist in the Oval Office is going to exploit this shooting to do something unconstitutional. Oh wait, he's got a history of unconstitutional behaviour and his cronies are already using this as an excuse to order the opposition to be silent?

We're talking about exactly what we should be talking about, and your plea about "people are hurting" isn't fooling anyone.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193127: Jun 14th 2017 at 9:56:53 AM

And, oh, will you look at that, an UPS employee has had enough and started shooting as well.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#193128: Jun 14th 2017 at 9:56:55 AM

People got hurt. It sucks.

There, we talked about it. That is the extent to which it can be talked about, because deliberations do not help the victims of a shooting. Emergency response and medical treatment does.

Politicians are not emergency responders. They do not have the training, the knowledge, or the qualifications to personally go out and provide medical treatment to the injured. Their job is to take what happened and say, "What lessons can we take away from this and how can we shape our country in such a manner as to reduce the probability of this ever happening again?"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#193129: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:00:20 AM

Gun control isn't ideological exploitation of an incident, its a policy response. Cracking down on your opposition is an exploitation.

The gun control comparison doesn't hold water.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#193130: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:02:13 AM

Another one I'm not sure how to take

From Rand Paul's Twitter:

.@Judgenap: Why do we have a Second Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!
Isn't Paul part of the GOP or am I mixing him up with Randroid Ryan?

edited 14th Jun '17 10:04:03 AM by sgamer82

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#193131: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:05:18 AM

He's a member of the so called Libertarian wing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#193132: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:06:28 AM

The way you should take that is that on June 23, 2016, Obama was still President and everyone was pretty sure Clinton would thrash Trump and Dems would continue holding the Presidency for the next four years. Thus, Rand Paul engaging in the same pro-gun sabre-rattling Republicans love doing.

They're very well-trained at being an opposition party. It's why they suck so hard at being the majority.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#193133: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:06:44 AM

A lot of people have had problems with Democrats calling for gun control after every shooting happens even those places that had tight gun control, and for many it comes off as exploiting a situation in order to further their political status.

I just hope the people who say it's disrespectful to make political hay out of a mass shooting by calling for gun control are equally upset at Republican representative Chris Collins, who barely waited until the shooting was over to blame democrats for the shooting.

Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) on Wednesday linked the political rhetoric of Democrats to the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) and others at a baseball field in Alexandria, Va.

"I can only hope that the Democrats do tone down the rhetoric," Collins told WBEN. "The rhetoric has been outrageous ... the finger-pointing, just the tone and the angst and the anger directed at Donald Trump, his supporters."

Collins said that it was inevitable someone was going to act based on the "rhetoric" toward President Trump and the GOP.

"You know, some people react to things like that. They get angry as well. And then you fuel the fires," said Collins, who is among the most vocal Trump backers on Capitol Hill.

A police spokeswoman said the shooter was in the hospital after being shot by police. Collins said Democrats should take the attack as a "wake-up call."

"Maybe this is a wake-up call. I'm not saying it will be," Collins continued. "But let's hope we could disagree on a more polite, conversational basis and not do things like what they did at my office a couple weeks ago."

Protesters held a "die-in" at Collins's office last week to protest the GOP efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. Collins said the move went "too far."

Y'know, since they're only upset about things getting politicized.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:11:11 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193134: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:07:23 AM

Ron and Rand Paul are oddballs within the GOP, more Libertarian leaning.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#193135: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:11:29 AM

Guys, this is standard GOP rhetoric. From 2016. Check the timestamp on that Tweet. It is not a response to this shooting.

Republicans like to bandy the Second Amendment around as a veiled threat. "I'm not saying we NEED to start shooting up the government, I'm just saying that everyone needs to have lots of guns just in case Democrats - whoops, I mean, "somebody" ever tries to accumulate too much power."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#193136: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:12:59 AM

On an entirely different note:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/14/staggering-civilian-deaths-from-us-led-airstrikes-in-raqqa-says-un

I somehow doubt that the US population notices because the press is barely covering this, but this is already the third time since Trump took office that a military action in the middle east lead by the US coalition ended up with an obscene high number of civilians dying. While Trump is playing the clown (has he already managed to mention his birthday and make the shooting all about him personally?) the US coalition has apparently lost every bit of inhibition and doesn't care how many end up in the cross-fire as long as they get to the terrorists, too. This won't end well.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#193137: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:13:32 AM

[up][up] Yes, we know. (Or at least I assume we all know.) We're just pointing out the GOP attitudes.

[up] That's another reason why I don't like the way the Trump administration has virtually abandoned civilian oversight of the military.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:14:44 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#193138: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:15:16 AM

Why are we talking about more about how much the other party I don't like sucks, instead of the fact people were hurt? I want to be honest, shouldn't be less on bashing on Republicans and more about finding consolation during this situation.

Oh please don't pull this crap.

How many Muslims, gays, women, and racial minorities were murdered due to right wing extremism? WHERE was the call for unity and respect then? Especially from the right?

Where were the call for finding consolation when Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, and Donald Trump used dog whistles to get their followers in rowdy fit and go on a shooting spree? And even then, the Republicans are currently blaming the entire Democratic party on this one idiot, who wanted Sanders to join the fucking Greens.

But this is ONLY the second time a far left yahoo pulled this crap and suddenly there's a call for unity?

Bull fucking shit! The Democrats have been calling for solutions, i.e. proper gun control, for YEARS now. Meanwhile with Republicans, it's still "lalalala can't hear you and it would be shame if you were suddenly gunned down now." It's even more insulting because no one died in this shooting.

Oh but don't call for unity when 9 black people get slaughtered in a church. Or when mosques are set on fire. Or when a yahoo goes on a shooting because women won't sleep with him.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:16:44 AM by NoName999

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#193139: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:19:07 AM

I confess I hadn't seen the date and thought it was more correct than it was when I linked.

N/m that then

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193140: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:20:17 AM

@No Name99914th

For the Charleston shooting, people forget Nikki Haley and other Republicans who came to unify with others to remember their fellow lawmaker, who was a pastor.

The thing is about gun control solutions is that sometimes those solutions can be seen as tone deaf, especially in places where there are strong gun control laws but they still got their hands on it.

Also that guy who killed people who didn't sleep with him was not inspired by any political leanings, so blaming him on the Republicans is not useful.

I also believe saying it's only the second time downplays the fact that Berkely and many other places where left wing extremists have pulled these kinds of violent stunts would beg to differ it's a right wing problem only.

Also it's not all the Republicans blaming it on the entire Democrats, but only one Republican lawmaker.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:28:14 AM by firewriter

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#193141: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:28:23 AM

[up]Didn't I just say cut that crap out.

The situations are nowhere near the same. Obama, Clinton, Sanders, and the rest of the left wing are NOT the ones who gets their base in a frenzy with violent dogwhistles.

It's Sarah "Don't retreat! Instead - RELOAD" Palin It's Donald "Hillary should worry about the 2nd Amendment people" Trump It's Fox "They're stealing your money and killing babies" News.

One leftist nut does not equate to all the times right wing nuts killed someone.

And ignore all of that for a moment. Right now, it's the Republicans who are using this shooting to antagonize the Democrats. So why aren't you sticking up for the Dems now?

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#193142: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:29:41 AM

[up]

I have seen only one Republican, and that is it. However, to say it's the whole party is incorrect and dismisses how a lot of Republicans seem to be leaning on their Democratic counterparts for emotional support as well.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/house-majority-whip-steve-scalise-shot-democrats-republicans-prayer-187897/

edited 14th Jun '17 10:31:06 AM by firewriter

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193143: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:30:50 AM

Only one Republican law maker so far. Collins is one of the Trump true believers. Fox News will certainly jump on this line of attack and that means it's likely that Trump himself will.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#193144: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:34:02 AM

Trump Jr. Kellyanne Conway, Dinesh D'Souza are currently trying to pin on Democrats and the left.

So yes, the Republicans are already gearing up.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193145: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:35:07 AM

The thing is about gun control solutions is that sometimes those solutions can be seen as tone deaf, especially in places where there are strong gun control laws but they still got their hands on it.

Be specific. Dylann Roof was permitted to own a gun due to a loophole requiring that all background checks be completed in 3 days. The Isla Vista shooter's guns were legally purchased and registered because there is no such thing as an "Are You Batshit" test before you are permitted to own a gun.

The GOP's stance on women legitimized the Isla Vista shooter's attitude towards women. "Submit or die"? Sounds awfully familiar.

I also believe saying it's only the second time downplays the fact that Berkely and many other places where left wing extremists have pulled these kinds of violent stunts would beg to differ it's a right wing problem only.
Smashing windows and starting garbage can fires is equal to leaving people with life threatening injuries or outright dead because?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#193146: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:36:29 AM

@No Name 999, could you actually provide a source for that ONLY SECOND thing you keep repeating? Your point about right wing related terrorism being much more common can be made without making such a bold claim, and just expecting us to accept it.

@Firewriter, this situation and all mass-shooting attempts are already politicized, but the Democrats aren't the ones doing it. Going "How can we make it so things like this happen less often?" is not politicizing things. Going "This happened because of Democrats" most certainly is. The two things are not the same, no matter how much you try and paint them as such.

[down]Thank you. Though, it really doesn't answer the specific claim.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:48:58 AM by LSBK

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#193147: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:38:40 AM

[up]How's this?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#193148: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:44:02 AM

The GOP's stance on women legitimized the Isla Vista shooter's attitude towards women. "Submit or die"? Sounds awfully familiar.

Goes beyond that even. Rodger identified as incel, which is a warped right-wing ideology all of its own. Most of the incel sites are currently all aboard the Trump train, and while he wasn't running for office back when Rodger did the shooting, the incel crowd had already embraced many of his predecessors, as well as birtherism.

Divorcing Rodger from the misogyny of the hard right is impossible, because the misogyny of the hard right not only informs the incel ideology but is entirely wrapped up with it. As the alt-right has become a thing, the incels have staked out a position on the fringes of it, in places where even Richard Spencer fears to tread, have canonized Rodger as "Saint Elliot", and have tried to push their worship of him into other places in the alt-right. They've made common cause with the Neo-Nazis in the name of fighting "Tyrone" and that process was underway even before Rodger's spree.

Long story short, anybody who wants to claim Rodger isn't a product of right-wing politics is going to have to try very hard to make that argument.

Smashing windows and starting garbage can fires is equal to leaving people with life threatening injuries or outright dead because?

Don't you know that those university kids wouldn't let poor Milo speak? They're suppressing free speech. Clearly it heralds the beginning of a Communist takeover. Or so FOX has told me.

edited 14th Jun '17 10:45:09 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#193149: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:49:26 AM

Let's be honest though, this became political the instant the guy opened fire. There are reports that he was asking whether it was Republican or Democratic congressmen before he started shooting. He went to a place they would be grouped together in the open with reduced security. If any GOP congresspeople had been killed who here can honestly say they would be sad for him? (A few maybe but not everybody). For his family, maybe. For staffers and bystanders hurt, maybe. And people would denounce the shooter. But I don't think you would be mourning the congressman any more the peasants mourned Louis XVI as he went to the guillotine.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#193150: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:53:01 AM

Speaking of denouncing, has Sanders chimed in on this? Don't see any way he can't if the shooter was one of "his"


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