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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#192951: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:14:03 PM

Aren't Presidential Pardons accompanied by an effective admission of guilt?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#192952: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:15:05 PM

I think we're beyond any of these fuckers giving a shit about looking guilty.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#192953: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:41:31 PM

[up][up]Yes-a pardon is also an admission of guilt, legally speaking.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#192954: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:48:12 PM

Trump would probably do it. Right now, Republicans are more afraid of Democrats than of Russia. That's where the Party Over Country behavior stems from, after all. Trump's made clear on multiple occasions that he thinks the entire investigation is illegitimate; that the Democrats invented this scandal as an elaborate web of lies they're using to try and undermine his Presidency.

An opinion largely fed by right-wing pundits.

Since Trump thinks the entire Russia thing is one big lie to try and discredit him - and because he's too stupid to consider the political ramifications of his actions - he would undoubtedly pardon Sessions, Flynn, Kushner, and anyone else caught in the probe. Hell, I wouldn't put it past him to try and reappoint them afterwards.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#192955: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:50:43 PM

We have to consider that Trump is a businessman who was openly corrupt during his whole career and yet constantly got away with it, partly because he was born rich and partly because he simply bullied his way through difficulties. I am ready to bet that if you actually look into his finances it will turn out that he isn't a billionaire at all, but sitting on a giant Ponzi scheme, in which he owes a lot of people a lot of money....and based on what his son said, those people are Russians. What Trump is now doing is just continuing the pattern. He doesn't care that everyone sees his corruption, but he does care to keep the people with whom he is connected through "loyalty" happy.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#192956: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:54:21 PM

[up][up]And that would put the ball squarely in the court of the, well, courts-While the AG and pardons office actually write the pardons with the POTUS, those pardons must be introduced and confirmed in court-and can be thrown out as a matter of course if they try to end run them. Now, that has never happened, so that would likely mean it gets fast tracked to the SCOTUS.

If SCOTUS upholds a pardon for someone being investigated for sedition via compromised by foreign power, I will be first in line with a lit torch and machete (I do not own a pitchfork).

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#192957: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:02:31 PM

And then we get to watch this happen:

  • Trump's Lawyer: Nobody is talking about some kind of blanket pardon. Sessions deserves a pardon because he's been the target of a witch hunt with insufficient evidence to justify the accusations against him.
  • Trump on Twitter: Crooked liberal courts trying to mess with my blanket pardon!

edited 13th Jun '17 2:02:48 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#192958: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:04:33 PM

However partisan individual SCOTUS members may be I don't believe any of them would uphold such a pardon, even Garland.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#192959: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:05:37 PM

Or better yet:

  • Trump lawyer: The immigration ban is not targeted to specific religions.
  • Trump at rally: The courts are blocking my ban on Muslims!

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#192960: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:16:57 PM

I'm a little confused right now; does the AGOTUS (Jeff Sessions, in this case) represent the Executive branch as a whole, not just the President? I forget.

edited 13th Jun '17 2:17:36 PM by PresidentStalkeyes

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#192961: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:30:21 PM

Apparently everyone who got a position under Trump is now serving Trump? I mean we just listened to a bunch of politicians verbally licking his butt (to put it polite).

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#192962: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:36:29 PM

RE: Pardons

To clarify something, Sessions was asked whether he'd discussed them with Trump, and Sessions reiterated what he'd said in the opening statement, that he would not be speaking about private conversations he'd had with Trump during this testimony. So it's not exactly a smoking gun that he had.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#192963: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:57:35 PM

Congressional Democrats are not united on whether to push for impeachment right now The ones pushing for it are a minority still and the prevailing opinion seems to want to let the investigation continue to play out. Some of it is about possible hurt in 2018, some of it is wanting to wait till it's more sure.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#192964: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:06:54 PM

Time is on our side. The longer this drags out, the more dirt they'll dig up...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#192965: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:14:32 PM

@Septimus: That one actually happened.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#192966: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:26:19 PM

[up][up][up]

Yeah, impeachment is something they'll have one real, credible shot at. Waiting long enough, with the way Trump's going (especially the rumors that he's considering firing Mueller), could all-but guarantee it.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#192967: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:26:24 PM

The Dems should hold off until Mueller does his job. Unless he actually gets fired, in which case they need to rain hell on Trump.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#192968: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:29:57 PM

The question, though, is whether or not anything new that gets dug up will matter- the US have never managed to reach the point where both parties are calling for impeachment before, so why should we assume whatever the investigation turns out will change that?

Or, conversely, if we assume impeachment charges matter, is the potential for more damaging stuff turning up later worth all the problems Trump will cause between then and now?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#192969: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:50:41 PM

Consider what the price of failure is, in this case. There's a reason investigations for crimes go on for a while, and one of this magnitude needs to be air tight. Otherwise, it's a huge fucking embarrassment to the Democrats for years.

So yeah, he can do a lot of damage in the meantime. But if they don't do this absolutely right, than the attempt won't matter at all.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#192970: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:01:29 PM

Its not enough to simply discredit Trump, we have to discredit Trumpism. That will take awhile.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#192971: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:02:10 PM

Moving against Trump without airtight evidence would embarrass the Democrats and validate his accusations of them conducting a witch hunt. It might even increase sympathy for him if the GOP were to play their cards right. It'd be very unwise to do anything rash before such a time that there's anything completely solid to hook him on.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#192972: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:03:14 PM

The Attorney General represents the United States of America, theoretically. (This mostly matters in terms of attorney-client relations and yatta-yatta).
The AG handles executive branch actions often (and can drastically affect the laws on hir own merit by, for example, declining to defend certain laws), but practically, the AG is an agent of the president (who can fire the AG after all).

However partisan individual SCOTUS members may be I don't believe any of them would uphold such a pardon, even Garland.
Gorsuch? (Garland is the Obama nominee that Mc Connell had the Senate sit on its hands over).

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#192973: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:10:31 PM

Officially calling for impeachment now, before Mueller's investigation has revealed a sufficient amount of smoking guns, would all but guarantee Trump becoming a Karma Houdini and would pretty much throw the 2018, 2020, and 2024 elections to the GOP. Unless anyone happens to have a time machine and an Ahnold android ready to go, letting Mueller conduct his investigation is the most sure bet we have of getting Trump out of office.

edited 13th Jun '17 4:13:52 PM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#192974: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:25:31 PM

[up]Or at least cripple his agenda (on top of his own incompetence doing that...) until the GOP gets voted out.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#192975: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:28:16 PM

I wonder how long it'll take the next poor fucker to clean up the mess the previous Pres made.

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.

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