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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Sure, but the moment we sided with Israel, we got involved in the local conflicts. And the Iran does have justified grievances in the regard.
My instinct tells me that perhaps Europe should reach out to Iran, but my mind tells me that this would mean even more complicated entanglement in local affairs.
edited 8th Jun '17 4:34:52 AM by Swanpride
The newer Iranian regimes aren't super-concerned with Israel, at least as far as I've been made to believe. Yeah, they (like the rest of the Middle East) aren't fans, and they're a useful scapegoat for the more authoritarian elements, but they're perceived as a lesser evil compared to another Sunni state in the Middle East.
Enemy of my enemy, etc.
But compared to the dictator states in the region, Iran's doing pretty well for itself. Especially as they start to become more outward-facing.
edited 8th Jun '17 4:37:09 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Well, that is the good thing about renewable energy, it really has a negative impact on the oil price. The less oil the world needs, the less power Russia and Saudi Arabia have.
Anyway, if Iran agrees to leave Israel alone (not that I am a big fan if the regime there either) and maybe loosen some of their more draconian laws, it might be possible to find common ground. If the Iran opens up and moves towards a more modern government at least as much as it is possible in their system, this should be encouraged, not by direct intervention, but by positive reactions.
edited 8th Jun '17 4:49:05 AM by Swanpride
One other issue with Iran is that for a lot of the old guard in the USA, It's Personal. It's hard to look at say, "Mad Dog" Mattis and think that his antagonism towards Iran is entirely objective and pragmatic.
Disgusted, but not surprised
At some point in the mid-2000's the Liberals realized they could win basically every election in the history of ever as long as they kept the support of the (racist, nativist and a bunch of other unpleasant -ist) Danish Peoples' Party.
And since then their platform has been 'hollow out the welfare state until its organs can't support itself, let it die and privatize the whole thing.' Indistinguishable from the Tories, just not as far ahead in its evolution.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Seems like the term "Liberal" is being used there ironically, or at least not in the sense of social liberalism. It sounds more like classical liberalism, where everybody needs to be "free" from the coercion of the State.
edited 8th Jun '17 6:24:11 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"And the best part is they're not even the most ardently liberal party in their government coalition. That award goes to the Liberal Alliance, who are libertarians in all but name and have the gall to call themselves the 'party of common sense.'
The conservative party is alright, even if I'd never dream of voting for them.
edited 8th Jun '17 6:27:17 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.Not really, it's more that Liberal in anglophone countries (except Australia) refers to very different positions than what it means in Europe. It's roughly like this:
- Anglosphere "liberal": center-left.
- Europe "liberal": right to center-right.
- Argentina (maybe other parts of Latin America?) "liberal": fascist, because the term is associated with the economic program of our last dictatorship.
edited 8th Jun '17 7:15:15 AM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVHonestly, liberal means something differently in every country. In the English-speaking discourse "neoliberal" has become some sort of buzzword for a party which supposedly wants to deregulate and privatize everything, hence undermining the checks and balances the government has in place. For example Macron is often called a neoliberal banker, or, even more revealing, a neoliberal Rothschild banker (once you read this phrase you know that you are dealing with a racist and anti-Semite) Though liberal is actually a good word for his politics, if you use it in the German sense, where it means: very open when it comes to social issues - meaning pro-welfare state (to a degree) and pro-equality and pro-protection of personality rights (the German liberals are mostly responsible for all the data protection laws we have), but also conservative when it comes to fiscal and economic matters.
I saw..ugh...that sounds just like something an Evil Overlord would say. Just add the "or else".
Prez Supervillain: "I hope this Russian investigation turns up nothing, or else...'

And lest we forget on the Iranian side, it's resentment over the US propping up a whole bunch of Sunni nations, something that doesn't sit well with the largest majority-Shia nation in the world.
Because lest we (and I include myself in that, European that I am) forget, the Middle East is perfectly capable of exercising geopolitical agency. Not everything is the Western powers fucking everything up. note
edited 8th Jun '17 4:19:54 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.