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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#190026: May 21st 2017 at 7:33:59 AM

That was straight savage, though. We need more of that in journalism.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#190027: May 21st 2017 at 7:46:15 AM
Thumped: for taking troll bait. Feeding a troll. Bad idea. Don't try to fix a troll, just use the holler button. Moderators have remedies.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#190028: May 21st 2017 at 7:50:32 AM

Well what are we supposed to do? You can't engage these people in good faith.

Oh really when?
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#190029: May 21st 2017 at 7:52:17 AM

Plus conservatives are already constantly calling liberals "smug"; the last thing we need to do is prove them right.

[up]Don't engage them at all, I say.

edited 21st May '17 7:53:08 AM by PhysicalStamina

i'm tired, my friend
pblades Since: Oct, 2009
#190030: May 21st 2017 at 7:57:22 AM

When has insult and aggressiveness ever changes anyone's thinking mind? A climate of widespread hatred is the last thing liberals should promote.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#190031: May 21st 2017 at 7:58:32 AM

Sad thing is, you can't really win no matter what.

If you try to be polite and conciliatory, you get mocked as weak.

If you try to be blunt and hardass, you get accused of being smug and uppity.

Disgusted, but not surprised
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#190032: May 21st 2017 at 7:59:56 AM

[up][up] ... The 2016 Election.tongue

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#190033: May 21st 2017 at 8:03:15 AM

[up][up][up] These people already despise liberals and minorities.

Sorry I'm not going to coddle their feelings for the sake of being above the fray.

Fuck that. This is war for peoples rights.

New Survey coming this weekend!
pblades Since: Oct, 2009
#190034: May 21st 2017 at 8:21:11 AM

@above sentiments

How about being decisive (but not reckless), principled, and reasoned?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/18/james-comey-trump-special-prosecutor-robert-mueller-fbi-215154

It is inspiration that heralds positive changes, not meekness nor boorishness. "Politics is a zero-sum game" isn't a belief one should embraces.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#190035: May 21st 2017 at 8:25:14 AM

Kimberly Ellis, a Sanderista who ran for California's Democratic Party Chairperson, loses by 62 Votes against Eric Bauman. However, she refuses to concede, and is in talks with Lawyers to get a Recount.

Fantastic! This is the kind of crap the Democrats need right now! Freakin' peachy! This kind of crap makes me worried that the 2018 Elections are going to be a crap show...

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#190036: May 21st 2017 at 8:28:11 AM

It's not about the person you're arguing with, it's about those who're watching. Surprising as it may be, style matters.

[up]Sigh...

edited 21st May '17 8:28:35 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#190037: May 21st 2017 at 8:28:14 AM

[up][up][up]I think the last election proved that if your good enough at insults you can win elections. So since the other side won't ever try to help people who aren't themselves you gotta do what you gotta do, and right now it is insult the other candidate. Enough people don't pay attention to the substance of argument and the American people largely care about who could look better on tv.

edited 21st May '17 8:28:49 AM by Wildcard

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#190038: May 21st 2017 at 8:28:16 AM

[up][up][up] This seems eerily similar to Sanders supporters appealing to superdelegates when it became clear Sanders wasn't going to win the 2016 primaries.

Granted, losing by 62 votes is pretty close in a 3,000 vote count. Recounting shouldn't be too tricky, Now, if the recount confirms the loss and Ellis still refuses to accept it...

edited 21st May '17 8:28:41 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#190039: May 21st 2017 at 8:28:34 AM

I mean, in some jurisdictions a vote that close triggers an automatic recount anyway, just in case. But if she still loses and continues to stoke division, that's a problem.

Not like recounting 3000 votes is a huge administrative burden or anything.

edited 21st May '17 8:30:04 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#190040: May 21st 2017 at 8:36:18 AM

She could at least have been more open with why she felt a recount was warranted, if only to make her seem less like a Sore Loser.

edited 21st May '17 8:36:40 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#190041: May 21st 2017 at 8:37:01 AM

Lol how many Ls does Sanders wing have to take for him to get the message?

New Survey coming this weekend!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#190042: May 21st 2017 at 8:38:08 AM

Honestly, with a vote that close it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a recount. Let's not make this into more than it is.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#190043: May 21st 2017 at 8:40:04 AM

Eh, I'm willing to withhold judgement until her reaction after 1) her request is refused or 2) a recount confirms her loss. That is assuming of course that she doesn't win the recount.

62 out of 3000 is only 2%, which is pretty thin.

edited 21st May '17 8:42:55 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#190044: May 21st 2017 at 8:42:37 AM

I was about to ask how big the pool was.

Might as well humor her for the time being.

Insulting the opposition - it's been done forever, see attack ads. Remember Daisy?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#190045: May 21st 2017 at 8:52:47 AM

No, we absolutely don't. Name-calling, smugness, and general disrespectfulness from all sides just makes the problem of hyperpartisanship and information bubbles worse.

What are we supposed to do, keep right on pretending that their lies are as real as our facts? Continue to act like this is normal public discourse while they claim up is down and right is left? This sort of nonsense has to be called out, and at a certain point you cannot be polite about it. I'd also note that, given some of the things that have been said in this thread, neither you nor I are in a position to be demanding universal politeness from others.

Anderson Cooper did entirely the right thing there. The guy he was talking to was refusing to acknowledge the existence of objective reality or otherwise engage in debate. Past a certain point Cooper had to either find a way to shut him down, or let the guy continue to make trash up. He chose option A, and I'm glad that he did. That some on the left are more hung up on his language choices than on the fact that he did his job baffles me. That some of those same leftists have no problem casting aspersions on fellow Democrats or progressives but demand that every Trump troll be treated with utmost respect baffles me still further.

Ultimately I have to ask—do we want journalists to nail Republicans to the wall for their BS, or do we want them to respect Republicans' feelings? Because you cannot always do both.

Lol how many Ls does Sanders wing have to take for him to get the message?

To be fair Fox, this one was a genuinely close election and as others have said, in many places this would result in an automatic recount anyway.

You know how I feel about Sanders and his diehards, but so far this particular candidate isn't doing anything wrong. If she refuses to accept the results after the recount, then we can accuse her of being a problem.

As to the overall question, I don't know when or if the Sanders crowd will get the memo that their strategy doesn't seem to be working. A lot of them have a built in bogeyman to blame in the form of the DNC or "The Establishment", who they can accuse of not giving a candidate enough money etc. Occasionally they'll even have a point on that front—the reality is that the DNC cannot give every candidate the same amount of support, and sometimes it will be the Sanders-esque candidates who lose out.

edited 21st May '17 8:54:11 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#190046: May 21st 2017 at 8:55:46 AM

I wasn't referring to her specifically, just them in general considering they've lost far more than they've won suggesting there's more nuance to winning elections than they seem to think

New Survey coming this weekend!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#190047: May 21st 2017 at 9:03:33 AM

Somehow I have trouble getting concerned about a race that apparently is going to someone on the Democratic side either way, in a position that is pretty small??

Anyway, regarding insults and such: We, as a society, theoretically tend to require a higher standard from newspeople and politicians. The idea of what "we" as in the general public should do as regards as the people we're seeing on TV are, actually, two different but related things as far as I'm concerned. While I'm not going to think that the occasional shot from a high profile figure is going to ruin anyone now, and probably be on their side as long as they're right. I do general expect that they shouldn't reduce themselves to the level of youtube commentary, which is what you guys seem to be thinking they should.

Before you say, no that's not what you meant, I'm going to point out that you guys have taken Cooper's actions and then spoken about yours as if they have equal levels of influence on the national conversation. Cooper and similar figures reach a far larger audience than anyone here can. We don't need our representatives lowering themselves to Trump's level. We should be expecting better behavior.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#190048: May 21st 2017 at 9:03:51 AM

[up][up]There absolutely is. I think it's the inherent problem with people who embrace messianic politics—they're so inspired by their messiah of choice that they often think everyone else will be to if only they'd listen. It makes it difficult to plan a campaign.

We don't need our representatives lowering themselves to Trump's level. We should be expecting better behavior.

I wouldn't say that's what Cooper did though. There's a world of difference between a well-placed and well-deserved shot at someone who is refusing to debate in good faith—as happened here—and what Trump does, where he doesn't bother to have a discussion and just insults people.

Cooper was trying to have a conversation with someone who was refusing to participate. He finally resorted to insult to shut the guy down. It's not something that should happen in every interview, but it's also something I have no issue with happening in this interview.

edited 21st May '17 9:07:27 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#190049: May 21st 2017 at 9:07:07 AM

[up] I certainly wasn't inspired by Sanders. I liked some of his ideas (and thought others were a joke) but I couldn't see him as someone who would be able to make most of them into actual policy as POTUS.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#190050: May 21st 2017 at 9:10:14 AM

China 'crippled CIA operations, killed informants': New York Times

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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