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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#189951: May 20th 2017 at 8:01:31 AM

[up][up]

Well, the one of Davis at least - the other guy I'm not familiar with, and I genuinely hope that the statue of Lee does get treated decently, as he has a reputation for being the Confederacy's equivalent of Erwin Rommel - a Worthy Opponent who was engaging primarily in My Country, Right or Wrong.

[down]

Except, as I recall anyway, the Afrika Korps had a reputation of treating POW's fairly regardless of ethnicity.

edited 20th May '17 8:19:50 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189952: May 20th 2017 at 8:02:49 AM

[up][up][up]I mean, I wouldn't mind statues like that going to museums, with full context descriptions of course. Except that monument to the racist riot, that should be publicly smashed, and replaced with a plaque celebrating the troops who suppressed them.

[up]Rommel would be reviled alongside the likes of Himmler had he won (unlikely because of his habit of ignoring supply lines, plus Royal Navy>Axis), as his troops would have been tasked with exterminating Jews and other minorities in the Middle East (the SS was too busy in Europe). Lee, while not the worst of his peers, did oversee an army that enslaved runaway slaves and even free blacks when it went North. And I think that all Confederate units routinely massacred black refugees, especially if they were serving the US in a military capacity.

edited 20th May '17 8:06:30 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#189953: May 20th 2017 at 8:05:26 AM

Really? Preserving their history? What a load of garbage. The confederacy failed. They just want a symbol of oppression to flaunt.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#189954: May 20th 2017 at 8:06:45 AM

Right wing sources are painting the whole event as "desecrating war memorials" while failing to mention that one ones being removed were erected by and dedicated to while supremacists well after the civil war. One of them was dedicated to white supremacists who staged an insurrection in 1874.

Personally I'd be find with leaving a few here and there, but changing the plaques to remember them as memorials/warnings to future generations of fools and their folly that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of their kinsmen and the suffering of millions more.

edited 20th May '17 8:12:38 AM by carbon-mantis

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189955: May 20th 2017 at 8:11:22 AM

"We started the most devastating war in North American history, with the goal of retaining the right to use human beings as farm equipment, and then lost said war decisively. Clearly heritage to celebrate."

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#189956: May 20th 2017 at 8:18:36 AM

Plus, relocating such monuments to museums will hopefully avoid making martyrs of the statues - as much as inanimate objects could be considered martyrs, anyway.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#189957: May 20th 2017 at 8:28:20 AM

Too late for that, as many have found out. Seriously, who would commit murder to defend this shit?

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#189958: May 20th 2017 at 8:28:58 AM

One thing I've seen is the people against the removal of the statues are trying to claim that it's an attempt to erase the Confederacy completely. Uh, no. No one's trying to claim the Confederacy never existed. Just that it was awful.

On a related note, I have a really distant cousin who lives in West Virginia, and he's lived there his whole life. I got a mass e-mailing (because my grandmother is obsessed with connecting everyone on that side of the family together. There's a lot of crazy people so I usually don't engage, I can only hear so much Flat-earth stuff before I just give up) from him asking for people to protest the removal of the memorials with him, to "preserve the history of the state in the Confederacy". He's from West Virginia aka, the state that left Virginia to join the Union. The specific memorial he wants to protect is for General George Mc Clellan, the guy who drove off Robert E. Lee. The memorial isn't going to be removed.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#189959: May 20th 2017 at 8:57:27 AM

Except, as I recall anyway, the Afrika Korps had a reputation of treating POW's fairly regardless of ethnicity.

Well, provided they were British, Australian or New Zealanders. Anyone else was treated fairly in the POW camps before they were introduced to these nice Einsatzgruppen lads.

Rommel was just as rotten as the rest of the Wehrmacht, it's just postwar propaganda (pushed extensively by the British and Americans in particular) that makes him seem like an ace.

edited 20th May '17 8:59:49 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#189960: May 20th 2017 at 9:21:45 AM

You could expect a fair treatment as a POW on the Western Front and as long as you were captured by the Heer and the Waffen SS wasn't involved, most of the time but not always.

The Eastern Front? Oh boy.

Inter arma enim silent leges
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#189961: May 20th 2017 at 9:44:11 AM

The romanticization of guys like Lee and Rommel is one of those things that absolutely needs to stop. The notion of the Sainted Lee in particular has done irrevocable damage to the USA's culture, especially since it tends to be paired with denigrating Grant, Sherman, and the other Union leaders. One day, after I get my PHD, I am going to write a hatchet job on Lee, and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. In the meantime, anyone who wants to hold Lee up as some sort of hero should go read Lee, Considered or The Marble Man to see just how bad most of the scholarship on him is.

He's from West Virginia aka, the state that left Virginia to join the Union. The specific memorial he wants to protect is for General George Mc Clellan, the guy who drove off Robert E. Lee. The memorial isn't going to be removed.

I showed this comment to my fiancee and she laughed for five minutes straight.

edited 20th May '17 9:48:37 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#189962: May 20th 2017 at 10:51:54 AM

Trump scores an arms deal in Saudi Arabia.

Under political fire at home, U.S. President Donald Trump sealed a $110 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia on Saturday on his maiden foreign trip as he struggled to shift attention from the aftermath of his firing of the director of the FBI.

The arms deal, plus other investments that U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said could total up to $350 billion, was the central achievement of Trump's first day in Riyadh, first stop on a nine-day journey the Middle East and Europe.

Saudi foreign minister Adel al-Jubeir called the results of Trump's meetings with Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz "the beginning of a turning point" between the United States, Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies.$

Both he and Tillerson made clear the arms deal was aimed at countering Iran on a day that Hassan Rouhani was re-elected as Iran's president.

Tillerson said Rouhani should use his second term to end Iran's ballistic missile testing and stop promoting extremism in a volatile region.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#189963: May 20th 2017 at 11:00:08 AM

110 billion dollars? Wonder what you would use such money for.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#189964: May 20th 2017 at 11:04:02 AM

For bombing ISIS and Iran.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#189965: May 20th 2017 at 11:05:50 AM

[up] And Yemen; don't forget Yemen.

Also, considering who we're arming (Saudi Arabia), expect many of those weapons to land in the hands of Extremists.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#189966: May 20th 2017 at 11:09:37 AM

It figures that Trump would get along well with the Saudis. They like stuff with lots of gold plating all over it, too. (Difference is, the Saudi oil sheikhs can actually afford diamond-studded Rolls-Royces and other such gaudy things. Trump only pretends to be that rich...)

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#189967: May 20th 2017 at 11:09:49 AM

[up][up] Quite possibly ISIS itself.

. . .

Does this mean we can nail him for treason for arming ISIS?

edited 20th May '17 11:10:16 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#189968: May 20th 2017 at 11:16:57 AM

[up] If there's enough proof that he would.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#189969: May 20th 2017 at 11:19:05 AM

[up] yeah but he's already committed blatant treason and broke many laws and that hasn't stopped him yet.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#189970: May 20th 2017 at 11:20:09 AM

American weapons getting into the hands of extremists is such a cliche you'd have to charge heck of a lot more people than Trump.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#189971: May 20th 2017 at 11:20:41 AM

[up][up] Wait until he's coerced into resigning...I can feel it.

edited 20th May '17 11:20:51 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#189972: May 20th 2017 at 11:20:54 AM

[up][up]Damn you Tony Stark!

edited 20th May '17 11:21:05 AM by RAlexa21th

Continue writing our story of peace.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#189973: May 20th 2017 at 11:21:27 AM

[up] More like, Obadiah Stane. [lol]

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#189974: May 20th 2017 at 11:23:51 AM

Does this mean we can nail him for treason for arming ISIS?

Not as long as there is so much as a shred of Plausible Deniability. Probably not even when it goes implausible, frankly.

Seriously, don't get your hopes up about impeachment. The odds of it happening are astronomical, and it'll probably take years before it's ready to go through anyway.

Trump’s in a weak position, in large part because he weakened what should have been a strong one, but that doesn't mean he can be easily kicked out of it.

edited 20th May '17 11:31:17 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189975: May 20th 2017 at 11:26:20 AM

110 billion bucks still won't fix the Saudi Army's main problem: massive incompetence at all ranks. These are the guys who manage to lose Abrams on a semi-regular basis.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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