Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Pence, as a person, is better than Trump if only because Pence appears to have a coherent train of thought. As a President, Pence would lack a huge chunk of Trump's base (the part that loves Trump himself and don't really care otherwise) and he can't really inspire anyone.
Yes, he would be bad. Compared to anyone else, he would be flat out awful. But he wouldn't deliberately start trade wars and he wouldn't antagonize other countries for no good reason. At the very least, he'll read executive orders before signing them.
It would be best if Pence was caught up in the impeachment, because President Ryan would be even more useless, since Ryan is actually an extremely bad leader.
And even if Pence becomes president, he becomes "That guy who became president because he agreed to be the VP to an obviously insane disaster of a man." It doesn't reflect well on him.
edited 17th May '17 8:11:49 AM by Zendervai
x4 I'm sorry, there is no way you're going to get it. Pence may be a despicable creature, but he's no Criminal (at least not from what I can see). At this point, it's best to get rid of Trump, no matter what the consequences are. Including a President Pence.
If Republicans are the ones to get rid of Trump, though, you can rest assured that Republicans will be slaughtered at the Ballot Booth in 2018 and 2020. I'd also suspect that Pence wouldn't bother trying to get a Term on his own.
edited 17th May '17 8:12:40 AM by DingoWalley1
but Pence can not be the decision either. He would destroy decades of social progress we have made. His policies would hurt Woman, the LGBTQ community, anyone who is not an evangelical Christian, ect.
I've said it before, but keeping Pence out of power is not a concern when it comes to impeaching Trump. Pence is already in power. He is already in a position to push his agenda. If anything, making him president would, at this point, be a greater check on his agenda than leaving him vice president because he won't have Trump as a public distraction.
edited 17th May '17 8:22:03 AM by Wryte
If you win then you will lose, choice of evils, yours to choose.
Essentially, there's no good way out of this scenario. Trump is such a Godzilla Threshold that literally anyone else in the Republican Party would be an improvement.
edited 17th May '17 8:24:25 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I think that in the current political climate, if Pence tried anything to harm the rights of LGBT people, it would severely taint him and ruin his possible 2020 election, so probably and hopefully he wouldn't do anything until then.
He would still be miles better, if only for the fact we wouldn't have to listen everyday to another selfish or insane decision made by the US president that leaves everyone appaled on the news.
edited 17th May '17 8:27:57 AM by Grafite
Life is unfair...No, I'm not saying Ryan would be incompetent. I'm saying that he wouldn't have much influence. He's not very popular in the House and the Senate doesn't care about him. There's almost no one who actually wants Paul Ryan in charge on any side. What I'm saying is that Ryan would most likely be a non-entity of a president, who constantly tries to get his awful budget passed but no one cares enough to work with him.
He's a bad leader not because of anything specifically he does, but because no one wants to follow him. Yes, I know, the Randroids, but have you ever seen them actually rally around anything? As a bloc, they're about as useless.
edited 17th May '17 8:33:42 AM by Zendervai
So I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but CNN just put up a video on Presidential Impeachment 101.
If even the big news sites are acknowledging that impeachment is a very real possibility, then that's got to count for something.
Well, when competence is also tied to an agenda that you find abhorrent, many would prefer incompetence because it means less of that agenda is likely to get done. Thing about that is, Trump is already like that, and it obviously causes trouble in other areas.
So yeah, when the choice is between people like Trump, Pence and Ryan there really is no way for this to go that isn't bittersweet, with extra bitterness.
edited 17th May '17 8:36:32 AM by LSBK
South Carolina's Republican Primary, for the Special Election to fill Mick Mulvaney's House Seat, is so close that there is probably going to be a Run-Off.
Keep in mind, either Tom Pope or Ralph Norman (The two Candidates in the Primary that both 'selectively' support Trump) still have to face Democrat Candidate Archie Parnell next month.
edited 17th May '17 8:50:48 AM by DingoWalley1

Pence would probably purge Trump's entire team, other than the token establishment figures and some of the ex officers, from the West Wing.
And
this.
And even if Pence can't be legally dealt with, the court of public opinion will savage him and the GOP politically. Doubly so when their economic platform is revealed as the lie that we all know it is.
edited 17th May '17 8:10:59 AM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.