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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189476: May 17th 2017 at 8:08:46 AM

Pence would probably purge Trump's entire team, other than the token establishment figures and some of the ex officers, from the West Wing.

[up][up]What happens if Pence is removed enough from whatever brings Donald down?

And[up]this.

And even if Pence can't be legally dealt with, the court of public opinion will savage him and the GOP politically. Doubly so when their economic platform is revealed as the lie that we all know it is.

edited 17th May '17 8:10:59 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#189477: May 17th 2017 at 8:10:20 AM

Pence, as a person, is better than Trump if only because Pence appears to have a coherent train of thought. As a President, Pence would lack a huge chunk of Trump's base (the part that loves Trump himself and don't really care otherwise) and he can't really inspire anyone.

Yes, he would be bad. Compared to anyone else, he would be flat out awful. But he wouldn't deliberately start trade wars and he wouldn't antagonize other countries for no good reason. At the very least, he'll read executive orders before signing them.

It would be best if Pence was caught up in the impeachment, because President Ryan would be even more useless, since Ryan is actually an extremely bad leader.

And even if Pence becomes president, he becomes "That guy who became president because he agreed to be the VP to an obviously insane disaster of a man." It doesn't reflect well on him.

edited 17th May '17 8:11:49 AM by Zendervai

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#189478: May 17th 2017 at 8:12:18 AM

[up]x4 I'm sorry, there is no way you're going to get it. Pence may be a despicable creature, but he's no Criminal (at least not from what I can see). At this point, it's best to get rid of Trump, no matter what the consequences are. Including a President Pence.

If Republicans are the ones to get rid of Trump, though, you can rest assured that Republicans will be slaughtered at the Ballot Booth in 2018 and 2020. I'd also suspect that Pence wouldn't bother trying to get a Term on his own.

edited 17th May '17 8:12:40 AM by DingoWalley1

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#189479: May 17th 2017 at 8:13:49 AM

[up]x5 but Pence can not be the decision either. He would destroy decades of social progress we have made. His policies would hurt Woman, the LGBTQ community, anyone who is not an evangelical Christian, ect.

edited 17th May '17 8:17:40 AM by megaeliz

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#189480: May 17th 2017 at 8:15:10 AM

One other thing is the chaos inherent in replacing a President in the middle of a term. It's guaranteed that there would be at least a month where Pence wouldn't be able to do anything because he'd be too busy trying to patch up the cracks left behind.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189481: May 17th 2017 at 8:16:47 AM

Look. If Trump deserves impeachment? We have to go for it. Pence is bad, but we know what we're getting.

Take Pence down in 2020, and stonewall him on everything else as a former member of an illegitimate Presidency. Make him the next Gerald Ford.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189482: May 17th 2017 at 8:17:59 AM

The GOP is destroying decades of social progress, or they are trying to at least. That will keep going as long they control the government. Pence, Trump, etc are interchangeable on this issue.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#189483: May 17th 2017 at 8:18:22 AM

Indeed.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#189484: May 17th 2017 at 8:18:32 AM

[up][up][up]and don't forget 2018.

[up][up] the thing is, Trump has been so incompetant about it. that "Religious Freedom" executive order was so ineffectual, the ACLU literally didn't bother going after it in court.

edited 17th May '17 8:25:16 AM by megaeliz

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#189485: May 17th 2017 at 8:20:28 AM

Yeah, count me in for preferring Pence to Trump, albeit for more selfish motives than most of you: Pence would be a national disaster, Trump can end up being a global one.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#189486: May 17th 2017 at 8:21:13 AM

but Pence can not be the decision either. He would destroy decades of social progress we have made. His policies would hurt Woman, the LGBTQ community, anyone who is not an evangelical Christian, ect.

I've said it before, but keeping Pence out of power is not a concern when it comes to impeaching Trump. Pence is already in power. He is already in a position to push his agenda. If anything, making him president would, at this point, be a greater check on his agenda than leaving him vice president because he won't have Trump as a public distraction.

edited 17th May '17 8:22:03 AM by Wryte

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#189488: May 17th 2017 at 8:24:03 AM

It would be best if Pence was caught up in the impeachment, because President Ryan would be even more useless, since Ryan is actually an extremely bad leader.
I'm personally troubled by the idea of wanting someone in a position of power because of their incompetence. Isn't that part of the logic for people who thought Trump could be reined I'm by advisors?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#189489: May 17th 2017 at 8:26:26 AM

There isn't a good option. We have to look at 2018 and 2020 now.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#189490: May 17th 2017 at 8:26:50 AM

I think that in the current political climate, if Pence tried anything to harm the rights of LGBT people, it would severely taint him and ruin his possible 2020 election, so probably and hopefully he wouldn't do anything until then.

He would still be miles better, if only for the fact we wouldn't have to listen everyday to another selfish or insane decision made by the US president that leaves everyone appaled on the news.

edited 17th May '17 8:27:57 AM by Grafite

Life is unfair...
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#189491: May 17th 2017 at 8:32:13 AM

No, I'm not saying Ryan would be incompetent. I'm saying that he wouldn't have much influence. He's not very popular in the House and the Senate doesn't care about him. There's almost no one who actually wants Paul Ryan in charge on any side. What I'm saying is that Ryan would most likely be a non-entity of a president, who constantly tries to get his awful budget passed but no one cares enough to work with him.

He's a bad leader not because of anything specifically he does, but because no one wants to follow him. Yes, I know, the Randroids, but have you ever seen them actually rally around anything? As a bloc, they're about as useless.

edited 17th May '17 8:33:42 AM by Zendervai

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#189492: May 17th 2017 at 8:33:01 AM

So I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but CNN just put up a video on Presidential Impeachment 101. If even the big news sites are acknowledging that impeachment is a very real possibility, then that's got to count for something.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#189493: May 17th 2017 at 8:34:46 AM

I'm personally troubled by the idea of wanting someone in a position of power because of their incompetence. Isn't that part of the logic for people who thought Trump could be reined I'm by advisors?

Well, when competence is also tied to an agenda that you find abhorrent, many would prefer incompetence because it means less of that agenda is likely to get done. Thing about that is, Trump is already like that, and it obviously causes trouble in other areas.

So yeah, when the choice is between people like Trump, Pence and Ryan there really is no way for this to go that isn't bittersweet, with extra bitterness.

edited 17th May '17 8:36:32 AM by LSBK

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#189494: May 17th 2017 at 8:34:54 AM

I guess it comes down to Priorities. Would you rather have

A). The Idiot

B). The fundamentalist

C). The Randoid

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#189495: May 17th 2017 at 8:35:51 AM

[up] Randoid.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#189496: May 17th 2017 at 8:41:21 AM

I can appreciate the point you're all making but I stand by my statement that I dislike the idea of wanting someone as leader precisely because he'd be bad at it. The fact the fundamentalist is the best "good leader" close of the bunch in this case doesn't change my feeling about the situation.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#189497: May 17th 2017 at 8:44:43 AM

[up]That's what I meant about priorities. I was just trying to lay out the choices.

edited 17th May '17 8:45:18 AM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#189498: May 17th 2017 at 8:47:51 AM

Pence at least would be less likely to trigger WWIII. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen under his watch, but it would be less likely.

At the very least, you could probably count on Pence not leaking classified info.

edited 17th May '17 8:48:26 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#189499: May 17th 2017 at 8:49:46 AM

South Carolina's Republican Primary, for the Special Election to fill Mick Mulvaney's House Seat, is so close that there is probably going to be a Run-Off. Keep in mind, either Tom Pope or Ralph Norman (The two Candidates in the Primary that both 'selectively' support Trump) still have to face Democrat Candidate Archie Parnell next month.

edited 17th May '17 8:50:48 AM by DingoWalley1

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#189500: May 17th 2017 at 8:52:01 AM

That Senator who collapsed earlier only had a seizure and should be fine.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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