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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#189276: May 16th 2017 at 10:08:15 AM

@Septimus: I doubt it. We should build on our strengths.

@Ambar: If moderate Republicans dont care about national security, it's news to me. And thank you for highlighting my attempt to be open-minded and treat opposing viewpoints with some degree of respect. Coming from you, that is a surprising, but appreciated compliment.

@Bobwolf: I dont know how to keep people from electing incompetent idiots, other than pointing out to them the consequences of voting for incompetent idiots. We can all hope that the current circus show speaks for itself.

edited 16th May '17 10:11:02 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#189277: May 16th 2017 at 10:11:29 AM

If moderate Republicans currently have any power or relevancy in their party that's news to me. They got marginalized first by the Tea Party, then by the Trump fanboys. You want to make statements defending them? Back it up. Where are the efforts of these so-called moderates to fight Trump and his Russian backers? For that matter, if, as you previously suggested, they think the scary liberals are more of a threat to the nation then Putin, are they really moderates?

As others in the thread have noted again and again, guys like McCain and Graham might talk a good game on standing up to Trump, but they're a little light on action. I'm supposed to believe they care because they offer a verbal condemnation, then go right back to ignoring the problem? I think I'll quote Joe Biden on this—"show me something".

As for the rest both sider-ism is not open mindedness, and I can't think of a scenario when the Democrats have ever behaved the way the Republicans currently are. If you can, I'm all ears.

edited 16th May '17 10:16:58 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#189278: May 16th 2017 at 10:13:10 AM

[up][up][up]Structurally, nothing without a concerted long-term effort.

My favored options are:
1.) Severely tilt the Electoral College system so that the Northeast and the West Coast have absolute power in determining the shape and membership of the government.
2.) Institute a civil service test, with an ideal fail-rate of 99%, to restrict political office to a select coterie of politicians and intellectually-minded people.

So long as Flyover Country or the Deep South can throw its weight around on the national stage, this will happen again.

edited 16th May '17 10:13:41 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#189279: May 16th 2017 at 10:14:41 AM

After all, it's happened before, and the Republic survived. We'll survive this time too, the only question being how much damage will occur in the meantime.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#189280: May 16th 2017 at 10:14:44 AM

[up][up] I'd be all for getting rid of gerrymandering and the E.C. itself. But that's not likely to happen.

[up][up][up] It is not a coincidence that most if not all of the moderate Republicans who actually have the guts to scream out that the Emperor has no clothes are not ones who hold office.

edited 16th May '17 10:17:28 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#189281: May 16th 2017 at 10:17:32 AM

[up][up]Survival is the bare minimum. We will never be exceptional if we put our faith in unexceptional people.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
bobwolf from anywhere Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: That's rough, buddy
#189282: May 16th 2017 at 10:19:41 AM

@Crimson Zephyr

I was hoping we could avoid actively trying to disenfranchise sections of the populace.

But I find the argument that this had happened before unsatisfying. I really don't want to have to come back to this. Our democracy is getting undermined enough.

Drastic measures of some sort do need to be considered.

edited 16th May '17 10:20:01 AM by bobwolf

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#189283: May 16th 2017 at 10:21:49 AM

Kim Guilfoyle is saying she's been in talks to replace Spicer as press secretary despite nothing official coming from Trump or anyone else.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#189284: May 16th 2017 at 10:21:58 AM

[up][up] Getting rid of the E.C., and thus making the popular vote actually worth something might help. At the very least, polling would be less of a pain in the ass and more reliable.

[up] Guess Spicer can look forward to spending less time in the bushes and more time complaining about Dippin' Dots on social media again.

edited 16th May '17 10:23:47 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
bobwolf from anywhere Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: That's rough, buddy
#189285: May 16th 2017 at 10:26:17 AM

[up]

I mean, it'd have prevented Trump's election which means I'm for it 100%. But the GOP, the conservative media, the republican voters all are pretty badly failing at this moment. And getting rid of Trump won't change that underlying problem that one of our political factions has stopped seeing reality. I'm looking for anything that'd give me hope that they won't do this again, and I'm struggling to find it.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#189286: May 16th 2017 at 10:32:53 AM

[up][up] Isn't the EC mostly, if not entirely, a popular vote counted on a state by state basis?

edited 16th May '17 10:33:04 AM by sgamer82

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#189287: May 16th 2017 at 10:37:55 AM

[up] The "not entirely" part is how certain states' voters have more power in the election than other states' voters and how someone who won the popular vote by several million votes can still lose.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#189288: May 16th 2017 at 10:38:55 AM

Donald Trump is such a bad spy, he encrypts all his data with the password "12345."

Donald Trump is such a bad spy, all his dead drops are clearly marked.

Donald Trump is such a bad spy, he reuses the same one-time pad for all his decryptions.

"Trump, Donald Trump."

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#189289: May 16th 2017 at 10:40:55 AM

@Zephyr, @wolf: That's absolutely not something that would probably backfire at some point in the future. It also feels more like an excuse to indulge in authoritarian power fantasies rather than a actual solution to the problems highlighted by the 2016 election. Trump was not a failure of democracy, he's exactly the opposite: the failure of a system designed to limit democracy allegedly as a bulwark against the tyranny of the masses. In actuality, such systems ultimately function as a means of safeguarding the position and property of privileged classes of people, in the case of the electoral college that means white rural landowners.

edited 16th May '17 10:42:08 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#189291: May 16th 2017 at 10:41:36 AM

[up][up][up] Nah, his password is "Trump".

edited 16th May '17 10:41:51 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#189292: May 16th 2017 at 10:42:58 AM

Donald Trump is such a bad spy he thinks microfilm are movies made by little people

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#189293: May 16th 2017 at 10:45:42 AM

The problem is not that republicans dosent care about the country, is that they think THEY are the country, liberals are ungrafull people who engange in unamerican behivor, while republicans love the country because...well because they said so, this creare the idea that EVERYTHING they do is for the good of the country

This is not just tribalism but moral myopia, things are good because we do it and we do it because they are good.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#189294: May 16th 2017 at 10:46:31 AM

Well, probably the number 1 priority to preventing "another Trump" is to get dark money out of politics. This means passing laws that require the discloser of donors above a certain amount, the return of the equal time rule and the fairness doctrine during elections, the creation of an independent commission to oversee redistricting, and, eventually, an amendment to the Constitution that overturns Buckley vs. Valeo and the Citizens United Supreme Court decisions.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#189295: May 16th 2017 at 10:47:14 AM

I love Emo Trump. (I'm having a hard time embedding so): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlD8Uzpbi08

this is about the failing New York Times, Not as good as the Speeches one, but still fun

edited 16th May '17 10:55:08 AM by megaeliz

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#189296: May 16th 2017 at 10:47:45 AM

[up][up] That wouldn't stop another Trump; Clinton vastly outspent Trump and consequently got far more dark money than he did. It's something that's important to do because the fundraising arms race is toxic to our democratic institutions.

As far as money in politics, we can't limit donations without amending the constitution, but it might be possible to cap campaign spending, which is typically how things are handled in European democracies, if I recall correctly.

edited 16th May '17 10:49:07 AM by CaptainCapsase

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#189297: May 16th 2017 at 10:49:03 AM

Donald Trump is such a bad spy, his codename is "Donald Trump."

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#189298: May 16th 2017 at 10:49:20 AM

@Unknowing: A lot of them are convinced that people like you and me are a greater threat to our nation than Russia, mostly because Russia isn't shooting at us. We may regard that as profoundly wrong-headed, but the point is that they believe it, so they are being patriotic from their own point of view.

They way to fix this is to make sure that our own national defense policies are clear and well known. Liberals and Progressives are patriots too, and we can prove it.

@Captain: The problem isn't campaign spending, it's issue advertising by "independent" political action groups, which just happens to be aligned with one candidate's platform. The Republicans get far more of this than the Democrats, most elections.

edited 16th May '17 10:51:01 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#189299: May 16th 2017 at 10:54:09 AM

[up] Would there be a way to get that advertising to count towards campaign spending? Because it's exceedingly difficult to amend the constitution.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#189300: May 16th 2017 at 10:57:45 AM

The source of the secret intelligence that Trump gave to the Russians: Israel

The classified intelligence that President Trump disclosed in a meeting last week with Russian officials at the White House was provided by Israel, according to a current and a former American official familiar with how the United States obtained the information. The revelation adds a potential diplomatic complication to the episode.

Israel is one of the United States’ most important allies and a major intelligence collector in the Middle East. The revelation that Mr. Trump boasted about some of Israel’s most sensitive information to the Russians could damage the relationship between the two countries. It also raises the possibility that the information could be passed to Iran, Russia’s close ally and Israel’s main threat in the Middle East.

....

The officials, who were not authorized to discuss the matter and spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that Israel previously had urged the United States to be careful about the handling of the intelligence that Mr. Trump discussed.

....

Former officials said it was not uncommon for presidents to unintentionally say too much in meetings and said that in administrations from both parties, staff members typically established bright lines for their bosses to avoid crossing before such meetings.

Israel’s concerns about the Trump White House’s handling of classified information were foreshadowed in the Israeli news media earlier this year. Newspapers there reported in January that American officials warned their Israeli counterparts to be careful about what they told the Trump administration because it could be leaked to the Russians, given Mr. Trump’s openness toward President Vladimir V. Putin.

Bonus points since officials already told Israel to not share sensitive information with Trump

edited 16th May '17 10:59:15 AM by NoName999


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