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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#188576: May 12th 2017 at 9:55:11 AM

Trump is now talking about just canceling press briefings in the wake of the Comey firing.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/12/media/trump-press-briefings/index.html

Cause that'll will go over well....

Could this firing really be a turning point of some kind?

edited 12th May '17 9:55:41 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188577: May 12th 2017 at 9:57:14 AM

Judging by the recent actions of the FBI and the numerous request for a special prosecution, it appears so.

Add that to the failure of the Right-wing to gain significant victories in Europe (Apart from Poland and Hungary) and you can see how this "new world order" falls apart.

edited 12th May '17 9:58:31 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188578: May 12th 2017 at 9:58:20 AM

It'll only stick if we can get a huge chunk of Republicans with him. We can't let them pretend he was acting alone or was just a fluke.

We have to hammer this in, he is a Republican and the entire party shares the blame.

Oh really when?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188579: May 12th 2017 at 9:59:18 AM

Just a select few but not all of them.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#188580: May 12th 2017 at 10:00:56 AM

If some of the more conspiracy minded people are legit it's possible the entire Republican party is facing a RICO case in the near future. That would clear out pretty much all of the higher ups and leave us with Orrin Hatch. At this point I'll take it.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#188581: May 12th 2017 at 10:03:10 AM

The fundamental problem with hate speech laws and other legislature that limits speech in a public context that is not directly and imminently harmful in the bodily sense is firstly that it doesn't change the underlying attitudes which lead people to say such horrible things in the first place, and in fact may very well push them even further into their respective bubbles, which elevating the risk for radicalization.

The people who already believe this are beyond saving anyway. You have one or two cases of people realizing their racism but they are so few it is completely negligible.

I don't care if they are pushed further into their respective bubbles as long as they keep inside that damned bubble and whenever their bile comes out it gets shoved back on their faces.

The second issue is the question of whether the enforcement of those laws can be trusted to someone like Donald Trump; someone getting into a position of power who really, really shouldn't be there is not an "if", it's a "when", with Trump being a great example of that, and from what I've heard Latin American countries have a fair number of examples of anti-defamation laws being creatively reinterpreted by unscrupulous administrations to target political opponents and the like. As much as it's a cliche, a variation of the golden rule is something to consider here; don't give others power you aren't prepare to see used against you, because in the fullness of time, the shoe will be on the other foot.

Good thing that Trump can't pass laws by himself and there are plenty of legal means to shut down abusive laws. Also the only people who have been using those anti defamation laws are already the Dictator lite in South America with a puppet judiciary and legislative. Those who did phony accusations over those laws were eventually shut down as being what they are, phony.

Even then finding ways to prove which speech has derogatory and bigoted attitudes towards minorities is much easier than prove than it would be over some racist equating people not putting up with its racists views as a form of discrimination.

Codifying into a law the prohibition of speech that demeans, incites hate and discriminates people based on their race/gender/sexual orientation/nationality isn't hard unless someone makes it hard like adding political views or subjective views as being protected or prohibited by the law.

This isn't even something you need to make up from scratch, just ask the Germans how they deal with those laws and you will have a decent ground work to make the law from.

There should be a law that erases the distinction between forms of speech like saying that black people should be killed for being animals and claiming that black people are unfit to live in society. Where the former is illegal for inciting violence towards a group and the latter is legal because it is merely an opinion, but still an opinion that irrevocably invokes the former, thus for all purposes the same type of speech.

On the issue of state rights. State rights have always been a dog whistle to defend discrimination and segregation and it is about time that the Federal government to tell those states to go fuck themselves and accept the fucking laws preventing them from using their state rights to fuck whoever they don't like.

edited 12th May '17 10:07:16 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#188582: May 12th 2017 at 10:03:14 AM

[up][up][up]No, the vast majority of the working members of the party.

edited 12th May '17 10:03:47 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188583: May 12th 2017 at 10:04:41 AM

[up] Alright, but still...not every one of them are evil bastards.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188584: May 12th 2017 at 10:05:33 AM

[up] Is enabling evil bastards out of cowardice or opportunism that much better?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#188585: May 12th 2017 at 10:05:53 AM

[up][up]Maybe not, but they are collaborators.

edited 12th May '17 10:06:07 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#188586: May 12th 2017 at 10:07:13 AM

The litmus test for the U.S' stupidity (let's call it the recovery exam, since they failed their first one) is going to be in 2018, where they vote for Congress again.

If they keep voting republican (unlikely, if there is some logic in that country), y'all's fucked. If they change stuff, that could mean great change coming which can give an actual left on the U.S a chance.

You're stuck with Trump being dumb until then tho, no way around it

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#188587: May 12th 2017 at 10:15:14 AM

"the latter is legal because it is merely an opinion, but still an opinion that irrevocably invokes the former, thus for all purposes the same type of speech."

I kinda disagree with that, should is awfull thing to said but them you will ban things for the implication it can bring rather for what they are saying, also I find very naive the idea they will stay in their bubbles just like that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#188588: May 12th 2017 at 10:17:23 AM

One has to consider that hate speech covers more than just racist rants from white idiots. It also covers a lot of stuff Isis and co are spreading. Decent hate speech laws can make the recruiting of terrorists more difficult and give the state something it can use to actually detain dangerous individuals without the need of a patriot act undermining rights in general.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#188589: May 12th 2017 at 10:22:52 AM

The German laws *do* overstep sometimes. They're supposed to protect those who want to discuss the Nazis in a educational or historical context but are not perfect at doing so.

Similarly, a broad ban on hate speech could be turned around on, say, blacks who employ N Word Privilages or censor legtimate written works that portray but not endorse hate speech or by people who want to declare evangelical Christ-ain'ts a persecuted minority (as if their persecution complex needed more inflating).

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#188590: May 12th 2017 at 10:25:28 AM

The thing about Trump is that he was never a traditional Republican. It's the Republicans who are fucked beyond saving themselves at this point, because 1) They are inextricably linked to a man who is probably going to be seen by history as an abject failure 2) The Left and the Center are pissed and are going to extract their revenge in 2018/2020 3) A very large segment of their base still supports Trump because they hate the establishment so much. This used to include only the "Liberal" establishment, but with the election of Trump, we now see that they have lost confidence in their own party's leadership class. They've lost confidence in anyone save their own community. Sure, they do still care about abortion and gun rights and so forth, but right now all that is secondary to jobs and social change. They were promised that smaller gov't would revitalize the economy for them, eliminate unfair competition, and protect their traditions, and no one delivered. They feel ignored and disrespected.

Which may or may not have a solid basis in reality. They are, after all, the victims of two generations of unopposed conservative propaganda, designed behind the scenes by media relations firms. That isn't something you can reverse overnight.

But, there is nevertheless an opening here. We can turn some of these districts blue if the Democratic Party can field some candidates who are willing and able to talk about issues related to economic class, without abandoning our traditional stance on civil and human rights.

We will never get the pro-life, pro-gun, pro-God, pro-white, flag waving crowd. But if we can plausibly claim to care about the effect of globalization on the American working class and middle class, well that could bring a lot of people back.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#188591: May 12th 2017 at 10:33:53 AM

I would not be able to say that with such certainty demarquis, which is why id say that the litmus test would be 2018.

Sounds a bit too optimistic to say they are angry and tired and they feel betrayed by Trump. There is only one measure that can say if they do or don't: Votes, and that doesn't come until 2018. I mean we are talking about the republicans. They voted Nixon, Nixon did incredibly stupid stuff, and yet they elected republicans again few years later.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#188592: May 12th 2017 at 10:37:17 AM

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/333069-marvel-villain-website-redirects-to-official-trump-page?amp

"hail-hydra.com" is redirecting to Trump's page on the White House website.

I tried it myself and as of this posting it still works

edited 12th May '17 10:49:29 AM by sgamer82

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188593: May 12th 2017 at 10:50:19 AM

@Angelus: Without amending the constitution to centralize power in the federal government, it's quite difficult, legally speaking to stop that sort of behavior, and that still leaves the problem of what happens under a Republican dominated government in question; Trump is probably the least of all possible evils the GOP could have plausibly produced when it comes to LGBT issues by virtue of not giving a shit rather than actively hating their way of life.

edited 12th May '17 10:50:34 AM by CaptainCapsase

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#188594: May 12th 2017 at 10:52:09 AM

[up][up]you know, I always consider Bannon stright out of hydra, he is THIS close to shout "hail hydra" in white house

edited 12th May '17 10:52:37 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#188595: May 12th 2017 at 10:53:39 AM

But, there is nevertheless an opening here. We can turn some of these districts blue if the Democratic Party can field some candidates who are willing and able to talk about issues related to economic class, without abandoning our traditional stance on civil and human rights. We will never get the pro-life, pro-gun, pro-God, pro-white, flag waving crowd. But if we can plausibly claim to care about the effect of globalization on the American working class and middle class, well that could bring a lot of people back.

Steve Bullock (the governor of Montana) agrees with you. He's managed to win comfortably in a state that I think went for Trump by an overwhelming margin, and he said a lot of his success is reaching out to people who wouldn't normally support the Democratic party and just making them know he cares. I dunno that people could run his honestly pretty progressive platform in most states but I think he might be right in the sense that low-information voters and people who mostly support republicans out of habit rather than ideology, and because they never gave it too much thought could be swayed to vote blue if enough effort was put in.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#188596: May 12th 2017 at 10:56:32 AM

I mean, for all the talk people go on about rebelling against parents, statistically most people end of sharing the views and party affiliation of their parents. I doubt a lot of research and critical thinking goes into that either way. More so from Democrats than Republicans, but still far less than a lot of Democrats/liberals would like to admit.

Edit: But I'm saying this mostly to agree with [up]. I'd image the number of true ideologues out there is much less than the number of people who vote for either party because "it's their team".

edited 12th May '17 10:59:36 AM by LSBK

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#188597: May 12th 2017 at 11:26:29 AM

I think that 2018 is going to be a turnaround year for the democrats-how is trumps approval rating? Has it stuck around 40%? Isn't it still around 80% among republicans? Once it goes down among them, we can pretty easily take back the house.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188598: May 12th 2017 at 11:28:28 AM

[up] If it goes down among them. It's still higher than the approval rating of the media and congress as institutions, which is quite alarming.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188599: May 12th 2017 at 11:30:04 AM

Republicans are never gonna give up on Trump. We've just gotta accept that they're a lost cause.

Oh really when?
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#188600: May 12th 2017 at 11:30:04 AM

[up] According to Quinnipiac, it's currently 36%. And the Republican Congress has a 22% Approval against a 71 Disapproval. Trump is also hemorrhaging White Voters and Independent Voters.


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