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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#188526: May 12th 2017 at 12:25:37 AM

So the FBI raid mentioned in post 188348 by Kostya does indeed seem to have some connection to the Trump/Russia investigation:

https://twitter.com/Datuser01G/status/862755309412126722

The GOP fundraising firm that was raided has ties to both Manafort and Stone, as detailed here: [1]

edited 12th May '17 12:26:01 AM by Ingonyama

FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#188527: May 12th 2017 at 12:37:04 AM

[up][up] Whenever I hear the term gaming, I think of video games, not casinos or gambling.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#188528: May 12th 2017 at 5:29:57 AM

So, the latest poll is out, Republicans, Independents and Democrats Disagree On Trump's Performance. There are two ways of looking at these results. 1) Republicans have not given up their support of Trump, and likely never will. 2) He's lost the Independents, which means, if nothing changes, he's lost the next election.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#188530: May 12th 2017 at 5:47:41 AM

The Thief King is so openly criminal I don't believe he is real.

Rather, I am but a brain in a jar and a malicious demon is giving me this false reality to torture me.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188531: May 12th 2017 at 5:48:27 AM

[up][up][up] Oh, now you're the one pessimistic about the nature of Republicans?

edited 12th May '17 5:48:36 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#188532: May 12th 2017 at 6:38:11 AM

[up][up] If we're really simulated consciousnesses in a matryoshka brain, then I want to talk to the programmer about Donald Trump. There's no way that the portrayal of humanity in this version of the program could ever reach a state that would be capable of constructing a machine that could simulate itself.

Our current plummet into intellectual chaos could be evidence that all sapient beings reach a point where their primitive brains can't cope with their societies and they devolve or die off, thus resolving the Fermi Paradox.

edited 12th May '17 6:40:58 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188533: May 12th 2017 at 6:45:13 AM

I dunno. I think it's just that the USA has little experience dealing with populist nativist fuckwit leaders.

The Venezuelan tropers have been all "welcome to the club guys" for a while.

As a whole, our civilization seems to be going through a rather rough and acne-ridden adolescence. Trump is just a particularly greasy zit.

edited 12th May '17 6:50:07 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#188534: May 12th 2017 at 6:47:38 AM

[up]Me Too, and I think some Brazilian tropers have done the same.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#188535: May 12th 2017 at 6:55:29 AM

Pretty much everyone in the Americas bellow the Texas south border have more experience than the US when it comes to populist leaders.

The real question here is how intact the US will be after Trump leaves. So far there has been some effort to insulate the US institutions from the Cheeto Benito awfulness and if the Democrats get the Congress in 2018 then the Mango Mussolini damage can be lessened.

The US is at least fortunate enough that there are enough democrats in the Senate and Congress to prevent the country from being given to the Blunder Fuehrer on a silver platter and the Republicans are still incapable of organizing themselves to actually support the Trash Toupee.

Perhaps the lukewarm support the Orange Menace gets from the Legislative and the little support he gets from the Judiciary branches are the few things preventing them from becoming the Orange Chavez.

However, Trump's candidacy and presidency also brought up some really deplorable groups to the spotlight and they won't be shoved back to their cesspits without some effort.

edited 12th May '17 6:57:48 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#188536: May 12th 2017 at 6:58:14 AM

I would love to meet a more advanced alien civilization just to find out how they resolved their ideologue paradox: Ignoring them lets them fester, and killing them puts you on their moral footing. And how do you reverse decades of intellectual decay in public discourse such that well over half your voters wouldn't recognize real knowledge if it bit them in the brain stem?

Edit: This isn't despair; it's acknowledgement of the difficulty of the task we face. I won't stop trying.

edited 12th May '17 6:59:48 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188537: May 12th 2017 at 7:00:00 AM

I have to imagine this is the sort of problem you can only solve by preventing it in the first place.

edited 12th May '17 7:00:37 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#188538: May 12th 2017 at 7:01:04 AM

[up]x18 I don't understand what the post was trying to say about the FBI raid. I know it was a GOP fundraising firm, but I can't find much more than that.

edited 12th May '17 7:02:47 AM by megaeliz

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#188539: May 12th 2017 at 7:02:31 AM

[up][up][up] All that's coming to mind as a solution to the ideologue problem is removing free will (or whatever illusion of it we have, depending on your opinion) and going full-Hive Mind (e.g. the Borg, the Cybermen, Unity).

edited 12th May '17 7:07:31 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#188540: May 12th 2017 at 7:03:25 AM

Maybe dropping the whole all speech is equal and should be treated with the same validity in order to keep the idiots and pundits from skewing the public opinion with their bullshit would help.

Inter arma enim silent leges
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#188541: May 12th 2017 at 7:05:15 AM

[up]What's your guys opinion on penalties/ban on Hate Speech? Would it be effective? It wouldn't stop it obviously, but would it make it less acceptable?

The idea of Free Speech, and Freedom of the Press is built on good faith, and it is expected that it is informed and not misleading.

edited 12th May '17 7:11:29 AM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188542: May 12th 2017 at 7:06:01 AM

[up] The German tropers might be able to help answer that. I think they have one of those in Germany.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188543: May 12th 2017 at 7:07:35 AM

[up][up]Absolutely vital going forward. We need one.

Oh really when?
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#188544: May 12th 2017 at 7:09:08 AM

We have laws that cover 'Sedition of the People'

"You can reply to this Message!"
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#188545: May 12th 2017 at 7:15:18 AM

Only Swanpride posted about it on the other thread, but Germany did pass a law charging social media outlets with clearing themselves of hate speech and fake news quickly after they were reported less they be fined.

The idea of Free Speech, and Freedom of the Press is built on good faith, and it is expected that it is informed and not misleading.
I doubt expectations were so lofty. Just this standard was a product of its time. In the 18th century despots simply kept what they didn't want to hear or what they didn't want people to believe from being published. In the 21st century, they don't need to lift a finger, because mercenaries and sympathizers can drown out actual good faith discourse with distorted copies from a laptop in a lazyboy chair.

edited 12th May '17 7:19:18 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#188546: May 12th 2017 at 7:18:14 AM

We have hate speech laws in the UK, covering all the major topics: colour, disability, sexual orientation, religion, race, nationality, ethnicity, gender, etc.

It covers spoken words, written words, and behaviour. Threatening or abusive. It also covers the crowd chanting at football games, where things can get very insulting. Yes, that includes Internet activity. Hate posts on Social Media can lead to prosecution.

Guilt is determined by intent, from stirring up religious hatred to causing people harassment or distress.

Punishment is imprisonment or fine or both. Imprisonment is capped to six months at most, but fines have no cap - they are at the discretion of the judge.

edited 12th May '17 7:19:13 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#188547: May 12th 2017 at 7:18:17 AM

So does anyone have any ideas for a hypothetical law penalizing hate speech would look like, or how it would be implemented and enforced?

edited 12th May '17 7:25:23 AM by megaeliz

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#188548: May 12th 2017 at 7:29:28 AM

The press can potentially be prosecuted as well. The Sun, The Express and Daily Mail are the main culprits in the UK, to the point of having been singled out by both the UN and the European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance.

It's hard to successfully prosecute the media or individual journalists in the UK because the media is so powerful and we lack an independent press regulator. However, it does happen sometimes. Usually it results in a journalist being suspended and the paper paying a fine.

edited 12th May '17 7:30:07 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#188549: May 12th 2017 at 7:48:50 AM

Legally banning hate speech doesn't stop neo-Nazis and nationalists/populiss from popping up. The AfD party is a current concern in Germany - only about 6% of the vote but growing.

And the other problem with such laws is that they are difficult or impossible to write in a way that wouldn't backfire on innocent people when the group you're trying to suppress decides to use it as a weapon.

[down]How, exactly? Citation and statistics needed.

edited 12th May '17 7:52:57 AM by Elle

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#188550: May 12th 2017 at 7:51:57 AM

It may not stop them from originating, but it does reduce them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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