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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#188201: May 10th 2017 at 2:41:50 PM

They don't have to be respected.

Only obeyed.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#188202: May 10th 2017 at 2:42:49 PM

The requirements to run for President are not much greater than the requirements to vote. Basically, all you need is to be Human, and have a pulse. (Of course, being eligible to run doesn't necessarily mean you have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning...)

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#188203: May 10th 2017 at 2:43:57 PM

@Ace I think you're getting mixed up. We're not saying the presidency isn't a prestigious job. We're saying its prestige has been damaged and that pre-dates Trump.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#188204: May 10th 2017 at 2:44:35 PM

@Aceof Spades: It's not just Trump tropers were talking about, it was all the other celebrities also announcing plans to become presidents without having any previous experience either. Just them being present in the primary process takes away all the seriousness that politics is supposed to have.

Life is unfair...
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#188205: May 10th 2017 at 2:49:41 PM

To be fair, the primary process is already pretty hard to take seriously.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#188206: May 10th 2017 at 2:54:05 PM

@IF Wander- I wasn't gloating over the loss myself both because I want Democrats to win more seats and because I want the in-fighting to stop, but it's interesting to learn that, because as far as I (most people?) knew about Mello, it was as "that social conservative guy who Sanders is shilling for some reason". I don't know if it would have helped in that election, since voters actually might have disliked these positions, but it would have helped in the discussion to know that the guy had good positions overall.

So, to the extent I would blame Sanders, it would be more in terms of stepping in it again in separating economic and social positions and seemingly arguing that only the former matter. I would blame anyone who didn't vote for Mello because of antipathy to Sanders, but I'd kind of doubt that would be a large subset of voters.

But I can definitely relate to the idea of a candidate turning you off because of stressing rhetoric over supporting their own qualifications. Which is apparently what actually sunk Mello. I "think" I did ultimately vote for him, but when Brad Schneider has run in Illinois over the past several years, I remember being turned off by him co-opting Obamaisms (without Obama's charm and rhetorical skill) and trying to paint Illinois' Liberal Republicans as far-right conservatives. And not doing a good job of selling himself. And this is someone running for Senate, where there is a connection to national politics. Doing that kind of thing as a mayoral (?) candidate seems like a bad idea.

edited 10th May '17 2:55:35 PM by Hodor2

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#188207: May 10th 2017 at 3:09:56 PM

Guys, you're kind of jumping on an idiotic bandwagon with this "presidency has lost its prestige" because believe it or not, it takes far more than one idiot getting the office to totally make the position worthless. And frankly, why would all these people theoretically want the title if it wasn't still prestigious? You present an argument, then point out that a whole lot of people still want it, because it still retains the same value. You contradict your own point that way. If anything, Trump has merely highlighted the fact that the list of actual legal requirements to run is a lot shorter than most realize.
[awesome]

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KamonTheSkunk The Little Stinker Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Little Stinker
#188208: May 10th 2017 at 3:17:50 PM

Not to jump into this too blindly and without knowing much about him, but at this point, I'd go as far to say that Jesse Ventura would make a great president.

Hey, I know he's more or less a case of a big Base-Breaking Character, but at least he has political experience and who else would have a chance at beating Trump in the next election?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#188209: May 10th 2017 at 3:22:09 PM

They're not even in the primary process yet, though. Saying "hey I might run" is not the same thing as actually running. You're complaining about literally nothing at this point. The primary process itself hasn't even started yet.

[up]AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah no. He's a conspiracy theory peddling nut. Hell, I watched his show, and he showed off his ignorance many times, in several cases seeming to think that his previous governorship somehow entitled him to knowing federal secrets, doing a show pushing the case that the UN and WHO were trying to depopulate the Earth so the "elites" could take over.

"Not knowing too much about him" in this case ignores all this. And also does nothing to tell us about how he actually ran his state as governor, which you should probably be telling us if you think he's a good candidate for president.

edited 10th May '17 3:25:26 PM by AceofSpades

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#188210: May 10th 2017 at 3:22:39 PM

[up]x4Yeah, I agree with what you're saying, it's just that in the last two or three pages there's been a discussion over Mello, and I thought it was relevant to mention that the guy does have socially progressive positions on some issues, especially because this is the second time I shared the article here.

[up][up]Based on current data, anybody, including all the 20+ people who ran against him in either the primary or the general election.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Boston Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#188211: May 10th 2017 at 3:24:23 PM

I would dearly love to see The Rock (or Jesse Ventura or even Arnold, though they're really starting to push it in age) bodyslam Trump. Throw him into a leg-lock, or at least a chokehold...

Yes, I think hitting No. 45 with a Body Breaker is exactly what this world needs.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#188212: May 10th 2017 at 3:25:51 PM

[up]Let's not advocate violence against anyone in this thread, please. It solves nothing.

On the prestigiousness thing again: @Madskillz, no, no I'm not. I get exactly what you guys are saying. Also, NO, no it was not damaged before Trump. People took the position seriously as fuck. There's a long tradition in this country of respecting the position even if you hate the guy currently in it. Whatever "damage" you're perceiving is mostly in your eyes and is far from a widespread opinion. Unless you have actual proof instead of just speculation?

edited 10th May '17 3:28:28 PM by AceofSpades

Boston Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#188213: May 10th 2017 at 3:31:25 PM

Oh, no. It would be an entirely reasonable match. Much like how, in the 19th century, they dueled.

It would, in fact, be much like Hamilton. But with chokeholds.

And I'm certain our current president could hold his own.

Also, re: Loss of prestige in the Presidency, most people would put the Kennedy - Nixon era down to irreparably damaging the office. Between Kennedy's affairs and Nixon's ... nixoning, plus the assassinations of various other American political figures in the same decades, a lot of people lost faith, or had their faith diminished.

edited 10th May '17 3:34:05 PM by Boston

KamonTheSkunk The Little Stinker Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Little Stinker
#188214: May 10th 2017 at 3:41:48 PM

Not to maybe get off topic, but in all honesty, I try not to get too deep into politics.

I only brought up Jesse because I knew that he was the governor of my state Minnesota. I have also heard a good number of people say that he really wasn't all that great, but some of his ideas would be if they actually worked. I only say this because from what I've read, he hates the two party system because he believes that it just doesn't work (which I do have to agree with, to an extent.)

So the conspiracy theorist part aside, he's far from the worst politician we have. Trump has that honor.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#188215: May 10th 2017 at 3:52:37 PM

They're not even in the primary process yet, though. Saying "hey I might run" is not the same thing as actually running. You're complaining about literally nothing at this point. The primary process itself hasn't even started yet.

It doesn't matter. The media is treating the presidency like a joke by pushing them and taking them seriously.

That is harmful.

edited 10th May '17 3:53:08 PM by MadSkillz

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#188216: May 10th 2017 at 3:55:52 PM

[up][up]I do not like Ventura's views on unions and higher education, but those have already been broken so badly that I do not think it would make much of a difference. If he wasn't too old and had anything resembling a support base, I would consider supporting him.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#188217: May 10th 2017 at 4:08:58 PM

In other news, every member of the Hawaii Congressional delegation has called for a special prosecutor on Trump-Russia.... except Tulsi Gabbard. Hey? Justice Democrats? Here's a DINO you can take out if you are so bloodthirsty for people to primary.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#188218: May 10th 2017 at 4:10:05 PM

What's her excuse? (I.E. what's her stated reason, not her actual one)

edited 10th May '17 4:10:58 PM by sgamer82

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#188220: May 10th 2017 at 4:32:08 PM

[up][up][up]Totally not Russian puppet, comrades! Is good American gal!

edited 10th May '17 4:32:33 PM by Kostya

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#188221: May 10th 2017 at 4:36:24 PM

@Madskillz: Oh no, the media is talking about someone famous who says a thing. ONCE. And then not continuing to report on it when the people involved don't continue saying the thing.

Yeah, you're making a mountain out a molehill. Massively. "The media" in this case, particularly the Rock's, is one outlet out of dozens that aren't mentioning it. (Also "the media" is not a monolith and saying "the media" makes it seem like literally every outlet is doing it which is far from being true.)

Basically, this has to be widespread for me to even come close to believing this is the kind of damage you think it is. You have a habit of blowing many, MANY things way far out of proportion.

@Kamon, if you don't try to get too deep into politics, then you're in the wrong thread. This topic is literally nothing but politics. And by suggesting a conspiracy theorist whose ideas would be great if they "actually worked" suggests that not only are you fine with a crackpot who would likely do the same kind of damage to international relations as Trump, you're also apparently ok with a guy who has no ability to get is his ideas to "actually work". "Actually worked" in this case implies that he sucked at putting anything into action in a way that was productive.

So.. not exactly a ringing endorsement. Hating the two party system is not enough to make a good president. It's not even on the fucking list of what makes a good president.

edited 10th May '17 4:37:30 PM by AceofSpades

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#188222: May 10th 2017 at 4:39:15 PM

[up][up]I read that in the voice of Sergei, the former KGB agent that lives across the street from Stan Smith, which seems appropriate.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#188223: May 10th 2017 at 4:45:48 PM

Oh no, the media is talking about someone famous who says a thing. ONCE. And then not continuing to report on it when the people involved don't continue saying the thing. Yeah, you're making a mountain out a molehill. Massively. "The media" in this case, particularly the Rock's, is one outlet out of dozens that aren't mentioning it. (Also "the media" is not a monolith and saying "the media" makes it seem like literally every outlet is doing it which is far from being true.)

Basically, this has to be widespread for me to even come close to believing this is the kind of damage you think it is. You have a habit of blowing many, MANY things way far out of proportion.

Once? They're not just doing it for The Rock. He is just the most recent example.

And right now, the Hill, Fox News, Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, The Independent , Huffington Post, Yahoo, CBS etc. are reporting it.

I don't feel like I have to hashtag #But Not All Media Outlets every time I say the media.

edited 10th May '17 6:00:14 PM by MadSkillz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#188224: May 10th 2017 at 4:46:29 PM

Gabbard can you do something not totally repugnant for once? Please?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#188225: May 10th 2017 at 4:58:34 PM

[up]Seriously, I don't know what is more impressive the fact that she is so vile or that some "progressives" still support her.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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