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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188076: May 10th 2017 at 9:51:51 AM

They can and will continue to gain power, they've got the know how, they've got the resources, they got the infrastructure, and now they've got NATO and West off their backs for four years at minimum.

I'm not saying we need to park nukes on the Polish border but we have to engage them and treat them like an existential threat again.

They won't stop being hostile and these attacks will only get more severe as time goes on.

edited 10th May '17 9:54:30 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188077: May 10th 2017 at 9:53:06 AM

You're letting that paranoia get the best of you. Shake it off man!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#188078: May 10th 2017 at 9:54:33 AM

Russia is meddling in the operation of Western governments by interfering with elections. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts — they're doing it in order to benefit themselves, which generally means weakening the West in order to discourage them from opposing Russian power grabs like Ukraine and Syria.

This is not a state of affairs that should be ignored by any means.

That doesn't mean that responding tit-for-tat is necessarily the most appropriate response. But undoubtedly there needs to be some response, and you, Captain, seem to be arguing against the idea that something needs to be done.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188079: May 10th 2017 at 9:56:30 AM

[up][up] We already are doing that. Which is a big part of the reason why Russia is acting like they are. Further validating the belief that the West is out to get them will not make things better, and trying to squeeze Russia until they collapse again is an utterly insane course of action.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#188080: May 10th 2017 at 9:57:18 AM

Well right now the Russians are out to get us and they're going right for the throat. What are we supposed to do?

They have demonstrated that even with their comparatively weakened military they can still cause possibly irreparable damage to the United States and the West in general. We can't ignore this and we can't treat this like an isolated incident.

edited 10th May '17 10:00:53 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188081: May 10th 2017 at 9:57:36 AM

I'm getting the feeling that all of this is revenge for what happened to the USSR...even though it was a Russian himself who brought (mostly) the end of it.

edited 10th May '17 9:57:49 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188082: May 10th 2017 at 9:59:24 AM

[up] I'm sure that is at least part of what is motivating Putin.

He wants to Make Russia Great Again.

edited 10th May '17 9:59:52 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188083: May 10th 2017 at 10:00:11 AM

[up] He's ex-KGB, so that makes sense.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188084: May 10th 2017 at 10:02:35 AM

@Jovian: There's not really any proactive way to respond to this that doesn't seem likely to escalate matters. Further sanction regimes won't work since, in order to be harsh enough to have a real impact on Russian policy, Europe would have to cripple itself economically. We already have a more than adequate deterrent against conventional military action, stepping that up further would simply produce a response in kind. What can be done is largely internal and defensive rather than external and proactive; better cyber-security infrastructure, and better means of refuting propaganda efforts like this.

@Garcon: The United States is still overwhelmingly the most powerful country in the world. It is increasingly unable to assert itself as a sole global hegemon, but refusing to face that reality will lead us straight into the thucydides trap.

edited 10th May '17 10:04:40 AM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#188085: May 10th 2017 at 10:02:38 AM

I'm with Le Garcon on this. Some sort of retaliation is required here. You don't catch another nation doing what Putin did and let it go unpunished.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#188086: May 10th 2017 at 10:03:24 AM

Putin is mostly using the US as a bogeyman to keep the Russian population's mind off their domestic issues. His foreign policy is wildly popular, which helps him stay in power despite the fact that his domestic policy is miserable. This is one of the reasons that making overt moves against Russia isn't necessarily the best idea — it actually benefits Putin on the domestic front to have a strong and hostile United States setting itself against him.

Of course, having a friendly US that looks the other way while Russia invades sovereign nations and props up regimes that commit crimes against humanity is good for Putin, too. We have to find some sort of middle ground. This is why foreign policy is hard.

There's not really any proactive way to respond to this that doesn't seem likely to escalate matters.
Doing nothing will also escalate matters by emboldening Putin and encouraging him to further his efforts. At the very least we have to take steps — serious steps, not just strongly worded statements — to block clandestine Russian influence over our political process. If we cannot guarantee open and fair elections free from the influence of hostile foreign powers, then we have failed as a democracy.

edited 10th May '17 10:05:36 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188087: May 10th 2017 at 10:07:30 AM

[up] From what Knit Tie on the Russian thread has posted, Putin actually gets by because the opposition is just that shitty. Putin has fucked up many times on the domestic and foreign fronts...and he is still seen as the most competent leader Russia has had in decades.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#188088: May 10th 2017 at 10:09:25 AM

Russian Camera crews were just allowed in the Oval Office.

On a scale of 1-10 anyone want to take a crack and how much of a bad idea that is? Considering they could have all kinds of spy equipment?

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188089: May 10th 2017 at 10:11:05 AM

@Jovian, @Ambar: Not doing something proactive (ie more sanctions, tit for tat, or military buildup) isn't the same thing as doing nothing. Coming up with better ways to handle this sort of situation in the future, improving cybersecurity infrastructure, and so on is the best that can be done without making things worse.

edited 10th May '17 10:11:13 AM by CaptainCapsase

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#188090: May 10th 2017 at 10:11:11 AM

[up][up]On the scale of Sanders running for office.

edited 10th May '17 10:11:46 AM by RAlexa21th

Continue writing our story of peace.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188092: May 10th 2017 at 10:12:09 AM

@Tactical Fox 88

On a scale of 1~10?

I'd put it somewhere around "WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION?!"

edited 10th May '17 10:12:52 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#188093: May 10th 2017 at 10:12:19 AM

[up][up][up] Really?

edited 10th May '17 10:14:21 AM by CaptainCapsase

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#188095: May 10th 2017 at 10:14:12 AM

[up] Touche. [tup]

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#188096: May 10th 2017 at 10:18:44 AM

[up]x4 The administration?tongue

edited 10th May '17 10:25:51 AM by kkhohoho

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#188097: May 10th 2017 at 10:21:37 AM

[up] I guess "everything" is probably the answer.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#188098: May 10th 2017 at 10:26:07 AM

One White House staffer a few minutes ago: "Total and complete chaos — even by our standards."

From POLITICO reporter Josh Dawsey.

Holy shit.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#188099: May 10th 2017 at 10:29:00 AM

Aren't there reports that Trump is yelling at a TV because it's showing stuff about the Russia story?


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