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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#187651: May 8th 2017 at 7:11:24 PM

I'm not too worried about Gabbard this cycle, she's far too young and has no support base of note. Still, creeps like her do make me see the advantages of stricter party discipline conventions used in other countries.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#187652: May 8th 2017 at 7:22:29 PM

Strict party discipline is only good when the party's platforms are good. Strict adherence to bad dogma is ultimately repressive.

Party discipline is something the Obama-era GOP had a lot of. (It's broken down noticeably when they actually find themselves running the show.)

edited 8th May '17 7:24:00 PM by Elle

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#187653: May 8th 2017 at 7:27:19 PM

By party discipline, I mean a regimen by which the DNC could have expelled Gabbard for meeting with Assad.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#187654: May 8th 2017 at 7:30:47 PM

I don't think there's a mechanism for doing that and I feel like that sort of system would lead to a slippery slope.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#187655: May 8th 2017 at 7:35:15 PM

Since you mention it, I don't believe either party has a formal procedure for expelling anyone. They could blackball them informally but I don't know any case that's actually happened.

I dunno though. The Tea Party had the GOP moderates by the balls just by threatening to primary them if they didn't vote their way - guy who loses a vote can still run again or run elsewhere. I can only imagine what sort of threat expulsion would be unless it really truly was for serious breaches of ethics and such. The state of things here is such that if someone is ousted from the party system their career would be utterly over.

edited 8th May '17 7:36:14 PM by Elle

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#187656: May 8th 2017 at 7:45:11 PM

They could withhold campaign funding but that's just going to lead to a Republican winning.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#187657: May 8th 2017 at 8:03:53 PM

Whether you find him funny or not, I think this Seth Meyer's video does a good job refuting some of the arguments made that this bill wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, and showing outrage:

Damn, Paul Ryan really looks and sounds like a Bioshock villain.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#187658: May 8th 2017 at 8:03:59 PM

So Sally Yates said Mikey "Shock 'em" Pence could, "essentially be blackmailed by the Russians" because of Flynn's actions. So where does that leave the investigation? Trump is going into fearful deflection yet his name wasn't brought up, it is unlikely he'll get kicked out unless they find something to tie to him personally. But will there be another trial?

Edit: Hearing about POS Cruz getting hit hard verbally is a joy to watch though. [lol]

edited 8th May '17 8:04:42 PM by Wildcard

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#187659: May 8th 2017 at 8:14:32 PM

Damn, Paul Ryan really looks and sounds like a Bioshock villain.

He might as well be one. He renounced Ayn Rand a while back but nothing about his actual politics or beliefs has changed in the slightest since, so it was a completely empty gesture.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187660: May 8th 2017 at 8:21:18 PM

[up] Ryan's one of those suckers who actually thinks he'd do well in Rapture.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#187661: May 8th 2017 at 8:29:23 PM

I don't think there's a mechanism for doing that and I feel like that sort of system would lead to a slippery slope.

It works in most other countries, the parties are considered private organisations (often with membership fees) and can thus expel members should they so wish (though in some cases parties have been forced to accept members if their exclusion was due to being sort of a protected class, the BNP were once forced to accept black members).

Here's the thing, this means that parties end up with more coherent policies (they don't have to please everyone who feels like putting their name down), are more independent finacially from donners (membership fees are a good way to raise money), they're more distinct from each other (which also helps reduce apathy) and you get a great variety of opinions being debated publicly instead of behind closed doors. It helps encourage growth of smaller parties because it means that people who vary to much form the party line either leave or are forced out and then go on to found their own parties.

The problem is that the US has this weird system where the government has a large roll in the internal workings of US political parties, primaries being run by the government is one example but the fact that when registering the vote you're asked what party you belong to is another.

Oh and on a different topic, after France is there any change of a movement occurring to try and push the US towards a similar voting system? Legally what's to stop a state making their presidential election be determined via a jungle primary and runoff (which is exactly what happened in France)?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#187662: May 8th 2017 at 9:32:12 PM

"Damn, Paul Ryan really looks and sounds like a Bioshock villain. "

please, can someone remenber who was the name of rapture leader? andrew....what? tongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#187663: May 8th 2017 at 9:32:47 PM

Andrew Ryan.

...Oh, Crap!

Do not obey in advance.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187664: May 8th 2017 at 9:42:07 PM

Before someone calls us out on derailing the thread any further, I'd just like to reiterate that Paul Ryan is not like Andrew Ryan. He's more like one of those idiots who would get an invite to Rapture and fall for the Original Position Fallacy. He'd probably end up being one of the toilet scrubbers.

The really interesting thing is wondering who in real life would be most similar to Frank Fontaine. A New York conman who engages in shady business and gains a power base by pandering to the "common folk" in Rapture...

edited 8th May '17 9:43:53 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#187665: May 8th 2017 at 9:43:48 PM

[up]I was thinking along those lines, but you put it better than I ever could.

Do not obey in advance.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187666: May 8th 2017 at 9:47:32 PM

Man, playing through franchises like Bioshock, Fallout, Deus Ex, and Oddworld hit way too close to home these days.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#187667: May 8th 2017 at 9:56:43 PM

[up] Especially Oddworld. The main villains in those games are essentially the GOP, the main enemies you fight are militarized police, it has a heavy industrial authoritarian air to the setting, and it has a big pro-environment and anti-corporation message.

edited 8th May '17 10:05:43 PM by FireCrawler2002

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187668: May 8th 2017 at 10:06:18 PM

[up] Nah, we still haven't gotten to the point where the GOP is digging up Native American burial grounds so they can use the bones to make soda.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#187669: May 8th 2017 at 10:08:01 PM

[up] Instead they are building shoddy oil pipelines through their land and brutalizing them with militarized police.

edited 8th May '17 10:08:11 PM by FireCrawler2002

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187670: May 8th 2017 at 10:14:10 PM

In other news, Comey apparently lied to Congress about how Huma Abedin forwarded "thousands" of emails to Weiner.

Yes, total shocker, I know.

The hilarious part is that the FBI can't figure out how it should deal with this. It's so dysfunctional that they can't even send a damn correction letter.

edited 8th May '17 10:18:54 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#187671: May 8th 2017 at 11:17:37 PM

Unicorn Brigader fight. Conspiracy nut (there is no other word for it) HA Goodman denounced TYT for selling out to the Democratic Establishment, while regurgitating every anti-Clinton talking point he can think of (DNC rigged the primary, "superpredators", blah blah blah) and insisting that the "purest progressive voices" need to blow up the Democrats and form their own party.

That someone like this continues to be given a platform at the Huffington Post (and on other ostensibly liberal sites) depresses me—and explains why I'll never take HuffPo seriously. That some people are still pushing for the left to self-destruct in this fashion frightens me. That they're finally eating their own, conversely, amuses me far more than it should. Please, feel free to attack Cenk all you want Goodman. Hopefully with his ego he'll waste time firing back at you and we can watch you two cannibalize one another for a while instead of continuing to target actual Democrats and actual progressives.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#187672: May 8th 2017 at 11:25:27 PM

[up] The Young Turks are now part of the establishment?

What.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187673: May 8th 2017 at 11:29:09 PM

[up] That was more or less my reaction too.

The Huffpo article is actually rather tame compared to Goodman's rantings on his own site Counter Propa.

edited 8th May '17 11:30:23 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#187674: May 8th 2017 at 11:33:00 PM

Though I was skeptical from the very beginning, that guy lost me completely when he put Trump being worse in quotes.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#187675: May 8th 2017 at 11:54:08 PM

I have only a passing familiarity with TYT - all I really know is Cenk Uygur is a genocide denier and its name comes from the political movement whose leaders were responsible for carrying out the aforementioned genocide (I'm getting the impression it was a little more complicated than that, but you get what I mean).

It's a wee bit hard to take the guy or his organization seriously as a "progressive" entity given all that.

I also think it's super weird, that these types of people have such ridiculous purity tests that they'd just squabble over who's the real sellout to the establishment while the US lies in a smouldering ruin after the Trump administration.


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