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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#187301: May 5th 2017 at 5:43:09 PM

Anyone who's read Gifted Hands knows Carson is completely sincere in his batshit craziness.

New Survey coming this weekend!
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#187302: May 5th 2017 at 5:57:37 PM

Trump to go ahead with plans to take Raqqa with the Syrian Kurds, according to the Foreign Policy.

Seems like Trump doesn't want to be close buddies with Erdogan after all. Of course, this may not be true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

Still, considering the Syrian Kurds are the most Democratic Islamic Force in Syria (and possibly all of the Middle East), I think this would be a good move. It'd also make Rojava (the Socialist Democratic State the Kurds set up in Northern Syria) more politically viable.

edited 5th May '17 6:00:38 PM by DingoWalley1

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#187303: May 5th 2017 at 5:59:52 PM

Carson kinda describes the Republican Party though.

Known to be famous for doing surgery. His famous patient, however, died.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#187304: May 5th 2017 at 6:04:40 PM

Okay allow me to rephrase, Carson had to be a total nutjob, my point was that Obama is to sane to get anywhere in the GOP as a black man.

[up][up] I don't know who is pulling Trump's strings on that front (I'm thinking Putin) but props to them, that's the smart move and I have no issue with. I just hope that the Kurds are prepared for the inevitable betrayal they will suffer at the hands of the US.

edited 5th May '17 6:06:24 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#187305: May 5th 2017 at 6:13:46 PM

[up][up] Carson was by all accounts a very effective surgeon. Beyond his area of expertise however, the less is said the better.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#187306: May 5th 2017 at 6:16:56 PM

Even the guys on Stormfront are more rational than this and they're explicit white nationalists.

No, they're explicit Neo-Nazis. "White nationalist" is the term they coined to try and cover up the fact that they are Nazis when talking with other people.

I do think the racism is overestimated because if he was elected on their side, many of them would just love Obama.

Right, because there was nothing at all racist about claiming he was born in Kenya or Indonesia and constantly harping on his birth certificate. There was nothing racist about the constant attempts to tie him to Islamism or the worst elements of the Black Power movement. There was nothing racist about the refrain of the "New Black Panthers" intimidating Republican voters from casting ballots against Obama. There was nothing racist about aping one of the oldest attacks on black female athletes by claiming that Michelle Obama was actually a man and that therefore Barack was gay. There was nothing racist about claiming that Obama hated white people that numerous Republicans and their propagandists tried to push (and on the flip side, nothing racist about white, supposedly liberal kids whining that he "wasn't black enough"). There was nothing racist about a campaign aimed at America's first black president whose entire point was that "this isn't what a president is supposed to look like". There was nothing racist about trying to stereotype him as a crack cocaine addict. Etc, etc.

Whatever you might think the source of the attacks on Obama were, the form they took was deeply, unarguably, and fundamentally racist. The Republicans dragged out every racist cliche they could to try and paint Obama as a nightmare to white America. Worked too—to this day, a ridiculous percentage of Republican voters still don't think Obama was born in America, on the basis of nothing more than "he's black".

But sure. Racism was a footnote in this story.

Like, how apparently any criticism or qualm with the Democratic Party is now just pandering to working class white people. Because working-class white people are the only ones how have issues with the Democratic Party/think they're out of touch, right?

When those criticisms are coupled with complaints about how the Democrats need to "move beyond identity politics" there's not many other ways to read it. Especially since the people who started that call explicitly referred to the White Working Class. That said WWC is in fact a near fictitious construct (as has been said many times, poor urban whites voted Democrat) only makes it worse since it means that what they're really saying is "stop talking about nonwhite stuff".

Poor rural whites elected Trump. Middle class whites elected Trump. That's the "WWC" we're getting asked to pander to.

edited 5th May '17 6:20:23 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#187307: May 5th 2017 at 6:19:53 PM

[up] Racism was an extremely important reason behind the GOP's distaste for Obama, but acting like it's the only reason is a great way to burn bridges with moderate Republicans who have serious misgivings about Trump.

edited 5th May '17 6:20:05 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#187308: May 5th 2017 at 6:21:26 PM

[up]Find me a moderate GOP member who refuted the racist attacks on Obama and we can talk. The only one I can even remember trying was McCain and he stopped as soon as the campaign was over.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#187309: May 5th 2017 at 6:23:13 PM

[up][up][up]Well, yeah, but acting as it's only people like that who bring it up, and it has no foundation with any other demographics, is also ignoring reality.

I mean, whatever you think of Sanders he apparently got the youth vote across all demographics. It definitely wasn't just young white people who had misgivings with Hilary Clinton and the Democratic Party, and it sounds like the issues were generally the same, from what I've heard/seen.

edited 5th May '17 6:24:46 PM by LSBK

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#187310: May 5th 2017 at 6:23:20 PM

Carson was by all accounts a very effective surgeon. Beyond his area of expertise however, the less is said the better.

We have differing opinions on what makes a good surgeon, then. Not even professionally is he an example to follow.

edited 5th May '17 6:24:03 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#187311: May 5th 2017 at 6:23:47 PM

@ the Kurd situation: Tis entirely possible that Trump doesn't know that Kurd forces and budding friendship with Turkey do not mix well.

@At FDA, T Vs now turned to Fox News and can't be switched. This is one of those things that are so petty, yet illustrate so clearly how tyrannic these people are.

The email from "[White Oak] Digital Display" sent on Wednesday, May 3, was sent to inform the researchers of the "reason for the change from CNN to Fox." White Oak is the name of the FDA's campus.

The email goes on to inform employees that the decision came from the Trump administration.

"The reason for the change is that a decision from the current administration administrative officials has requested that all monitors, under our control, on the White Oak Campus, display FOX news," the email reads.

Then, White Oak apologizes for the "inconvenience," adding, "I am unable to change any of the monitors to any other news source at this time."

An FDA spokesperson got back to CBS News after our deadline, telling us, "There was no directive or memorandum from the Administration that went out to employees about broadcast news channels displaying on monitors in common areas throughout the FDA's White Oak campus."

The spokesperson explained that a variety of news stations run on the monitors in the common areas on campus, including CNN, MSNBC and FOX News, and that the email referenced had been sent by a customer service representative from the FDA's Office of Facilities in response to a group of employees.

Huh...I might be getting too used to this. Didn't even flinch. I actually thought that would've been done already.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#187312: May 5th 2017 at 6:28:04 PM

Right, because there was nothing at all racist about claiming he was born in Kenya or Indonesia and constantly harping on his birth certificate. There was nothing racist about the constant attempts to tie him to Islamism or the worst elements of the Black Power movement. There was nothing racist about the refrain of the "New Black Panthers" intimidating Republican voters from casting ballots against Obama. There was nothing racist about aping one of the oldest attacks on black female athletes by claiming that Michelle Obama was actually a man and that therefore Barack was gay. There was nothing racist about claiming that Obama hated white people that numerous Republicans and their propagandists tried to push (and on the flip side, nothing racist about white, supposedly liberal kids whining that he "wasn't black enough"). There was nothing racist about a campaign aimed at America's first black president whose entire point was that "this isn't what a president is supposed to look like". There was nothing racist about trying to stereotype him as a crack cocaine addict. Etc, etc. Whatever you might think the source of the attacks on Obama were, the form they took was deeply, unarguably, and fundamentally racist. The Republicans dragged out every racist cliche they could to try and paint Obama as a nightmare to white America. Worked too—to this day, a ridiculous percentage of Republican voters still don't think Obama was born in America, on the basis of nothing more than "he's black". But sure. Racism was a footnote in this story.

Learn to read the whole post and stop cherry-picking quotes.

I explicitly said that extreme partisanship is as important as racism. I put them on equal footing. I did not make racism a footnote.

edited 5th May '17 7:00:18 PM by MadSkillz

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#187313: May 5th 2017 at 6:40:39 PM

Idk where to rank them, but tribalism could easily involve both. Tribalism is, after all, about othering a, well, "other." And Dems with a multiracial base and being easily cast as the evul libruls certainly fit. No reason not to do both.
And its more than just elections. I posted an article on US Culture some time ago that focused on people refusing to date Trump-supporters and vice-versa. Et voila la Pillarisation...

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#187314: May 5th 2017 at 6:42:54 PM

So, the Onion's creators have enough satire and gone straight for the jugular. Check this

As the debate over Obamacare rages on and insurance costs continue to rise, Americans consider how best to improve the country’s healthcare system. Here are the The Onion’s tips for not condemning millions of Americans to sickness and death:

Read the thing you’re voting on, particularly if you’ve heard someone mention that it might end up killing millions of people.

Do your research: Find out if any of the people you are paid to represent are human beings who use healthcare.

Try to better understand the concerns of your constituents by dying a slow, painful death while bankrupting your entire family.

See if you can recall any reason besides an all-consuming sense of self-importance and knee-jerk lust for personal financial gain that might once have motivated you to seek public office.

Check whether or not a single medical professional, patient advocate, economist, or literally anyone familiar with the subject in question supports the legislation you’re about to vote in favor of.

If respect for human life doesn’t interest you, try to remember that sick and indigent people are, at this point, still legally allowed to vote.

Acknowledge that serving in public office sometimes means putting aside your personal beliefs about how all poor people deserve to die in a wet ditch.

Consider going through the millions of years of natural selection and incremental evolutionary advancements necessary to develop a rudimentary backbone.

Find the nearest mirror; look in the mirror; check to see if you are a greasy, entitled fuck.

New Survey coming this weekend!
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#187315: May 5th 2017 at 6:47:06 PM

[up]The Onion might as well go straight up factual reporting at this point-I trust them more than 90% of the mass media out there, and anyone who just reads the headlines and highlights will not be able to tell the difference.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#187316: May 5th 2017 at 6:47:17 PM

@Aszur: I'm really not at all familiar with the man's history before politics, just going off of hearsay, so you're probably right.

@Ambar: I'm not necessarily talking about Republican politicians.

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#187317: May 5th 2017 at 7:29:12 PM

Consider going through the millions of years of natural selection and incremental evolutionary advancements necessary to develop a rudimentary backbone.

Savage. [awesome]

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#187318: May 5th 2017 at 7:38:12 PM

I mean, whatever you think of Sanders he apparently got the youth vote across all demographics. It definitely wasn't just young white people who had misgivings with Hilary Clinton and the Democratic Party, and it sounds like the issues were generally the same, from what I've heard/seen.

We've been over this before, but the youth vote is usually so small as to be statistically irrelevant. Which is a goddamn shame—if more young people voted, the hard right would never win—but it is what it is.

@Mad

In ranking them "equally" that is what you are doing. Here's a reality—the "extreme partisanism" you're talking about? Manifested in racist terms. There's not a single right-wing attack on Obama (maybe the Communism accusations, I suppose) that can be divorced from a racial narrative about which ethnicities are "really" American.

The GOP hated Bill Clinton more than they had ever hated anyone before. And yet, somehow, they never claimed he was foreign born. They accused him of being into powder cocaine. They accused him of having people murdered. They accused him of being involved in a paedophilia ring. They accused his wife of being a lesbian. But they never claimed he was a foreigner. They never claimed Hillary was a foreigner either.

Yet they decided Obama was, and the entire campaign against him rested on presenting him as a foreigner who could not possibly be a real American. This was not a product of "extreme partisanship". This was a product of racism. He was black and therefore could not be the president.

The "partisanship" you are trying to positions as a separate yet equal cause of the right's hatred of him was motivated by racism, expressed via racism, and sold to people by way of racist tropes. They're not separate issues and to claim that racism is overstated as a cause of Republican hatred of Obama is ludicrous.

edited 5th May '17 7:39:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#187319: May 5th 2017 at 7:39:43 PM

[up] And that's why I'm supportive of Mandatory/Compulsory Voting in the form of a Bi-Yearly Tax if you don't vote.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#187320: May 5th 2017 at 7:43:40 PM

[up][up]That it's statistically irrelevant doesn't take away from the point of them having issues with the Democratic Party. If anything it just enhances it.

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of those issues, but the point was it's a demographic that, generally without regard for race, was disillusioned with the Democrats/Hilary.

edited 5th May '17 7:50:56 PM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#187321: May 5th 2017 at 7:44:47 PM

It'd be easier to get people onboard if you phrase it as something like "Compensational Voting" and instead of calling it a tax penalty for not voting, rephrase it as a tax rebate for voting.

It's literally the exact same thing, just using different words, but phrasing it in casually positive verbage guarantees that tons more people will come out in support of it. This is one of the GOP's best tactics: couching every debate in language that, itself, colors the opinions of the people who hear it.

Terms like "Obamacare" or "Pro-Life" or "tax cut" are carefully calculated to create an emotional response before you even know what's being discussed.

edited 5th May '17 7:46:10 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187322: May 5th 2017 at 7:49:40 PM

[up]It's way more accurate to say "anti-abortion" and "anti-choice" instead of "Pro-life" anyway.

As for the youth vote...it's a chicken and egg Vicious Cycle problem (politicians don't listen to them because they don't vote often enough, which leads to them not voting...), along with the tendency of most adults to tune out young people by claiming they just don't know any better or something. Made easier by the fact that a lot of the time, they really don't know better.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#187324: May 5th 2017 at 7:54:51 PM

Much more. But that's the trick behind clever verbage. "Pro-Life" sounds like a wonderful thing. Everyone should be pro-life. Life is awesome. You hear the words "pro-life" and you're like, "Yeah, I'm pro-life. What alternative is there? Death? Nobody supports death!"

Democrats need to get better at that shit. Branding is everything, especially in the modern age of five-second soundbites.

As much as I hate to admit it, the Sanders crowd seem to be developing this skill. Their attempt to monopolize the term "progressive" is basically the same thing: branding their message with positive-sounding verbage to create an immediate kneejerk reaction in the hearts of people too lazy or apathetic to actually pay attention to policy discussions.

If you want your audience to like something, you use positive sounding words. If you want them to hate it, you use negative sounding words. It's persuasion 101, basically.

edited 5th May '17 7:55:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187325: May 5th 2017 at 7:58:34 PM

[up][up]Yeah, maybe they shouldn't have been so quick to link to an article from a site like "Rural America In these Times". Not exactly an unbiased source. Article doesn't even have the decency to link to the offending "mighty" Washington Post editorial.

[up]That's one reason I always use the terms anti-abortion and/or anti-choice instead of pro-life in the rare occasions I get into an abortion talk.

edited 5th May '17 8:03:00 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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