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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#187126: May 4th 2017 at 8:52:49 PM

Yeah, that's not particularly surprising. This stopped being about the actual contents of any healthcare bill along time ago.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#187127: May 4th 2017 at 8:53:05 PM

Between this and the Nancy Pelosi Gaffe in 2009, I'm starting to think: are we sure we want these Politicians, that don't even bother reading their own health care proposals, to be the ones in charge?

[down] Objectivist Neoconservatives.

edited 4th May '17 8:54:13 PM by DingoWalley1

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#187128: May 4th 2017 at 8:53:06 PM

So, what's the better term for the mainstream GOP other than Nazis? Nihilists or Misanthropes?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#187129: May 4th 2017 at 8:54:12 PM

I very much doubt you'd find much support for mandatory voting in this country. Probably along free speech grounds; freedom to express yourself also means freedom to not do it.

Not to mention that before we could even begin to talk about mandatory voting, we have to end voter suppression, or we'd be criminalizing disenfranchisement.

^ Why not just let "Republican" become the new "Nazi"?

I eagerly await the day Godwin's Law is expanded to include comparing people to Republicans.

edited 4th May '17 8:56:30 PM by Wryte

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187130: May 4th 2017 at 8:55:34 PM

[up][up]Some are simply Free Market ideologues (private insurance is the best to them), others are Prosperity Gospel believers (only bad people are poor in their eyes), others don't want to buck the party line, others don't want to go against Trump, and others just want to beat the Democratic Party. Most are a combination of the above. There's no single term that really captures what they are.

The ones who voted for it without even bothering to read it though? I have no qualms with simply calling them "fucking idiots".

[up]I'd steer clear of the Nazi comparisons at least until the GOP actually starts rounding up people in camps to be gassed to death.

edited 4th May '17 9:00:53 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#187131: May 4th 2017 at 8:55:55 PM

[up][up][up] Glukkons.

edited 4th May '17 8:56:04 PM by FireCrawler2002

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#187132: May 4th 2017 at 9:02:06 PM

Seeing that the GOP apparently loves and idolizes Andrew Jackson, over people like Eisenhower or Theodore Roosevelt, indicates that something is deeply wrong. Like, they love bringing up the "Democrats are the party of slavery" thing, but I'm not sure that they know Jackson was a Democrat? Like, what's wrong with Theodore Roosevelt? (Yes, I know he held some nasty views, but that's not what I'm talking about.) The guy is practically a folk hero who overcame asthma and became the most hilariously outdoorsy person ever. But instead they hold up people who would be disgusted at what they're trying to do, (because seriously, I'm pretty sure that if Lincoln was handed the opportunity to give proper modern healthcare to everyone, he would have jumped at the chance) or people who really shouldn't be looked up to.

Although it is kind of funny that the period when the Republican Party was the most stable and functional was when it was essentially being puppeteered by the Rockefellers, which the current Republicans will bend over backwards to avoid even hinting at. So, basically, the Republicans were at their best when they were being controlled by an enormously wealthy family of globalist Jews. tongue

[up][up][up] I've started calling the current crop of Republicans "degenerates". The politicians, not the voters. Many of the voters are simply trapped in a tragedy. The politicians have certainly fallen way short of the ideals, and they've done it deliberately.

edited 4th May '17 9:07:49 PM by Zendervai

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#187133: May 4th 2017 at 9:28:28 PM

"But instead they hold up people who would be disgusted at what they're trying to do,"

When was the last time modern Republicans used Abraham Lincoln as their standard bearer? As far as their concerned, the Republican Party was created by Reagan.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187134: May 4th 2017 at 9:29:13 PM

[up] They bring it up whenever they accuse the Democratic Party of being the party of slavery.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#187135: May 4th 2017 at 9:30:38 PM

When was the last time modern Republicans used Abraham Lincoln as their standard bearer?
Only when they want to passively aggressive link the Democrats with slavery and themselves against it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#187136: May 4th 2017 at 9:37:19 PM

They're going to have a harder time pulling that shit now that the Republican president has to ask "Why was there the Civil War?"

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#187137: May 4th 2017 at 9:37:21 PM

[up][up][up][up]Not that they will listen, but kindly keep in mind the last of Lincoln's legacy died with Eisenhower's last day in office, much like how FDR and Truman set the stage for Johnson to complete what they could not at the time.

edited 4th May '17 9:38:00 PM by ViperMagnum357

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#187138: May 4th 2017 at 10:12:11 PM

Oh, an ode to our ancient Party of LincolnTM sallying forth from their southern stronghold; boldly fighting for the union; not saying but proving in word and deed! to have malice towards all and charity towards none; and who sincerely invoke our sacred cow and not to worry for this does not at all heavily imply that the last good thing they've done was almost 200 years ago.
note 

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#187139: May 4th 2017 at 10:12:25 PM

So here's a question: If this revolting piece of rotting parchment new Trumpcare act gets through the Senate, exactly how long would it take for all of it to actually get implemented? Because here's things as I see it. If this passes the Senate, everyone who voted for it will quite possibly have just committed political suicide, (assuming that those who voted for it in the House haven't done so already,) making the probability of a Blue Wave in 2018 that much more likely. So depending on how long it would take Trumpcare to actually implement, it might be possible for a newly Democract house and Senate to come in and effectively reverse Trumpcare while putting Obamacare with the serial numbers filed off in its' place. And if Trumpcare hasn't actually been fully implemented by this point, then there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

edited 4th May '17 10:13:22 PM by kkhohoho

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#187140: May 4th 2017 at 10:24:20 PM

It's only political suicide if the victims understand who to blame. Now, the good news is that at least some of the Democrats, including those in deep red states like West Virginia and Missouri are working hard to make sure that message filters through to the voters there. I quoted him on it before, and I'll repeat it again—when Joe Manchin says he told Trump that West Virginia voters will "know who took away their healthcare" I really, really hope he's right.

Right now, probably the single most important thing for Democrats to do is to get the memo out there that the GOP really is trying to kill its constituents. With every Senate Democrat onboard with the idea that this bill is trash, and even the most cautious members of the party's red state caucus prepared to resist it (at least as it stands) this seems doable. They just need to get the message out there (the easy part) and make it stick (the hard part).

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#187141: May 5th 2017 at 1:13:51 AM

So my current wild mass guess is that Trumpcare was forced through to distract people from what Comey's been saying in hearings.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#187142: May 5th 2017 at 1:22:39 AM

[up]Or to distract them from the religious liberty EO that Trump signed on the same day.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#187143: May 5th 2017 at 1:36:01 AM

Well the ACLU already figured out it was all show and no trousers, so...

"Yup. That tasted purple."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#187144: May 5th 2017 at 4:06:44 AM

I'm pretty sure the Religous Freedom EO was to distract from Trumpcare, actually.

Georgia sixth may flip yet. A federal judge on Thursday declared that a Georgia law that closes voter resistration 2 months earlier than the federal limit to be voter suppression, and ordered Georgia to temporarily reopen voter registration until May 21. The Republican candidate actually seems worried about it.

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/05/04/democrats-have-much-riding-on-georgia-voter-registration-lawsuit/

http://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/federal-judge-orders-georgia-reopen-voter-registration-ahead-6th-district-runoff/

edited 5th May '17 4:27:18 AM by megaeliz

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#187145: May 5th 2017 at 6:26:13 AM

Reaching back a few pages, buuuut...

@Polar Phantom, 187018

So, what do the GOP even want?

They aren't evil for evil's sake, surely?

Not in the sense that they're Card-Carrying Villain who do evil things purely for the sake of being evil, no. In trope-y terms, they're a combination of Pragmatic Villainy (they like being rich and powerful, so they do evil things to increase their wealth and power), Well-Intentioned Extremist (they honestly believe that what they're doing is the right thing, and they're unwilling to unable to see the harm it causes) and Moral Myopia (they don't care that they're harming others as long as they're benefitting themselves).

@Wildcard, 187036

If you read the actual article, she was convicted for her actions in resisting an officer after being asked to leave, not the actual laughter. She's also unlikely to face jail time, though she could at least theoretically be sentenced to such.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#187146: May 5th 2017 at 6:55:59 AM

[up]I heard "unlikely" that she will face jail time. She shouldn't be facing anything but being thrown out if Sessions doesn't appreciate comedy like his speeches the way she does.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#187147: May 5th 2017 at 7:11:51 AM

[up][up]Perhaps not. Huffington quoted juror opinions, which have nothing to do with the charge. Desiree Fairooz was still indicted for "engaging in “disorderly or disruptive conduct” with the intent to disrupt congressional proceedings (read: laughing). The jurors don't decide the charges (usually, sort of) and her behavior towards the cop was irrelevant to both. This is relevant:

Justice Department attorneys claimed during the trial that laughter was enough to merit a criminal charge against Fairooz, asserting that “heads turned around” when Fairooz let out what they characterized as a “scoff,” “outburst” or “burst” of laughter. But they mostly focused on how Fairooz acted after she was confronted by the police officers.
That first sentence says it all. That was their whole case. As for the prosecution focusing her behavior toward the officer, well of course they did. I wouldn't want to argue why someone should be put away for laughter in front of a judge and jury. Though that article does make me wonder was attorney was asleep.

EDIT: Ok, there's this:
In a previous court filing, prosecutors said Fairooz ...grew “loud and more disruptive” when officers “attempted to quietly escort” her from the room. Fairooz, the government alleged, “created a scene after scoffing at Senator Shelby’s comments and then yelling that Senator Sessions’ voting record was ‘evil,’ while simultaneously waving a sign that read: ‘support civil right stop sessions.’”
To which, the yelling and being "loud and more disruptive" to officers would do it. Its still relevant that an abuse of discretion arguably caused the latter incident, but that argument either didn't win or wasn't tired. (I'm not reading any briefs for on my own time for a while).

edited 5th May '17 7:36:54 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#187148: May 5th 2017 at 7:21:15 AM

The key point here is this one:

Fairooz, the government alleged, “created a scene after scoffing at Senator Shelby’s comments and then yelling that Senator Sessions’ voting record was ‘evil,’ while simultaneously waving a sign that read: ‘support civil right stop sessions.’”
The jury agrees.

“She did not get convicted for laughing. It was her actions as she was being asked to leave,” the jury foreperson said.

In other words, she wasn't arrested for laughing (though the prosecution did indeed argue that she could have been, under strict interpretation of the law). She laughed, she was asked to leave for being disruptive, and she responded by becoming more disruptive. That's why she was arrested and charged, not just for the laugh.

edited 5th May '17 7:21:26 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#187149: May 5th 2017 at 7:51:05 AM

I'm not surprised the GOP Reps didn't read the bill before voting on it. Trump apparently didn't read it either.

As I understand it, the way this bill was put together and sent down for voting on meant that almost no-one had the time to read it before voting on it, even if they wanted to. That's where there were people getting together in groups to read (publicly comment on) different parts of the bill's content: there was so little time given for reading the content that even the people who wanted to whistleblow the content had to be strategic about how they could obtain a summary of it in the short time possible (by assigning different sections to different people).

It sounds like the 'no' Republicans were leaned on very heavily in the last 24 hours and promised the earth to meet their concerns - and with no-one able to properly read it in time, there's a question mark about whether even some of the Republicans knew what they were voting for.

I guess we'll have to see if there's any "Billgretters" afterwards.

I've also noticed that the Senate Republicans may not be the lifeline people want them to be, given that at least one of them has stated that, while they're working on another version of the bill, he's really proud of the House Republicans for passing it (I think it was John Cornyn).

edited 5th May '17 8:03:17 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#187150: May 5th 2017 at 7:58:56 AM

James Comey is not a senator, so it should be someone else. Also don't forget that under the Senate rules, they ought to get a CBO report first before the parliamentarian can decide which kind of vote is necessary to pass it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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