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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186701: May 3rd 2017 at 11:16:19 PM

[up] Pretty sure the reference to Cthulhu meant that post was in jest.

[down] Probably best not to think about it.

edited 3rd May '17 11:19:39 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#186702: May 3rd 2017 at 11:18:33 PM

[up] Though, I do wonder what would happen if North Korea did accidentally hit Russia/Vladivostok with missiles/a nuke...

edited 3rd May '17 11:22:49 PM by FireCrawler2002

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186703: May 3rd 2017 at 11:19:45 PM

I think at that point, China would leave NK to the wolves.

It can't protect NK from Russia and the US.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186704: May 3rd 2017 at 11:20:56 PM

Alright, I have a question.

Hypothetically-speaking if the US invited Russia into NATO, would Russia accept?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#186705: May 3rd 2017 at 11:21:04 PM

Cthulhu is super serious business. Things are super serious upon the mention of Cthulhu that's how you know things are going south.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186706: May 3rd 2017 at 11:22:57 PM

[up]Nah, things are only serious if Azathoth or Y'golonac get menioned.

[up][up]No.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186707: May 3rd 2017 at 11:25:24 PM

Alright now that things have hopefully cooled down, I can bring this up:

This is gold and so on-point.

Have I mentioned how much I love the Simpsons?

edited 3rd May '17 11:25:45 PM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186708: May 3rd 2017 at 11:26:41 PM

While the idea of Russia joining NATO has been brought up a few times...things would have to change a lot (such as Putin finally leaving office for good) for any progress to be made on that front. Assuming Russia occupying Crimea hasn't already permanently killed that notion.

NATO is probably not eager to bring in another country who would be far more problematic than Turkey any time soon.

[down]Eh, if Turkey, which shares a border with several Middle-Eastern countries, was able to join...

edited 3rd May '17 11:31:45 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#186709: May 3rd 2017 at 11:28:26 PM

[up] Would Russia be able to qualify for NATO, seeing as how they are also a Asian country and spread all the way to China, North Korea and Japan?

edited 3rd May '17 11:48:13 PM by FireCrawler2002

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186710: May 3rd 2017 at 11:29:22 PM

Eurasian.

Russia's a trans-continental country.

FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
#186711: May 3rd 2017 at 11:30:32 PM

[up] Still a part of the Far East, though.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186712: May 3rd 2017 at 11:34:05 PM

The idea has been proposed in the past. There is nothing in the original rules strictly forbidding Russia from joining NATO. It's just that in the current political climate, it has less than a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

edited 3rd May '17 11:35:15 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186713: May 3rd 2017 at 11:35:07 PM

@M84 But would that decrease tension since NATO is such a bother to them

Wouldn't them being on the inside make them feel less threatened?

edited 3rd May '17 11:35:18 PM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186714: May 3rd 2017 at 11:37:20 PM

[up] Then they would be subjected to NATO's rules.

Russia would only ever agree to such an arrangement if they were granted more power and leverage than the others in the alliance.

There's way too much bad blood right now for Russia to even consider joining NATO in good faith, or for the nations in NATO to welcome Russia with open arms. They already have their hands full with Turkey and its behavior towards Greece.

Maybe someday that could change. Such as the day after Putin retires.

edited 3rd May '17 11:38:59 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186715: May 3rd 2017 at 11:38:15 PM

So basically if Russia became the US' number 2 man or on equal standing then

That's not likely.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186716: May 3rd 2017 at 11:42:02 PM

[up] The only thing less likely would be Russia joining the EU. But that's not related to US politics.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#186717: May 3rd 2017 at 11:52:58 PM

NATO is, at its core, a military alliance. Technically speaking, for the purposes of defense, the more allies you have with more power, the better and more effective your alliance is.

Problem with Russia entering NATO and why it's not likely to happen is stuff like Ukraine, where they would just use the leverage of their allies to be bigger dicks. So, by definition, yeah, having Russia in NATO would be a good idea, but for its political meaning and consequences it'd be "pineapple on pizza" levels of stupid.

edited 3rd May '17 11:53:13 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#186718: May 3rd 2017 at 11:56:46 PM

@M84 But would that decrease tension since NATO is such a bother to them

Wouldn't them being on the inside make them feel less threatened?

Actually, joining a faction increases global tension.

Joking about how real life has been starting to bear an uncomfortable resemblance to a game about WWII and the lead-up to it aside, Russia joining would kind of be missing the point of why much of NATO is there - the various Baltic states are there as protection from their most consistent fear ever since they became independent, Russian aggression. It would essentially be inviting the bear inside the walls that we made solely to keep the bear out.

And should we really be that concerned about how "threatened" Russia feels about a defensive alliance? Russia's not going to start WWIII to dismantle it because, like most nations, they enjoy not being turned to trinitite, and no amount of Polish hawkishness would ever compel the rest of NATO to back them up if they started a war with Russia.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186719: May 4th 2017 at 12:06:54 AM

[up]

It would essentially be inviting the bear inside the walls that we made solely to keep the bear out.

These days the only way that would be considered would be if the bear was first defanged, declawed, dressed up in a funny clown outfit and forced to spend its days riding a unicycle.

There's no way in hell the bear would agree to those terms.

If Trump and Tillerson tried to sell the idea, both Putin and NATO would tell them to piss off.

Trump trying to sell NATO to Russia would turn out even worse than his attempt to sell vodka to Russia.

[down]Trump trying to sell Russia to NATO would turn out even worse than Trump Steaks.

edited 4th May '17 12:51:27 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#186720: May 4th 2017 at 12:49:19 AM

I point out that its not the USA's sole decision on who gets to join NATO. Under the current climate, if Trump would actually do so I can see most of Europe getting very pissed.

[up]If Trump actually goes ahead we have a EU Army before he's out of office? tongue

edited 4th May '17 12:53:11 AM by 3of4

"You can reply to this Message!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186721: May 4th 2017 at 1:54:14 AM

[up] Trump would flip his shit if the EU actually went ahead and formed their army.

Which I suppose might be part of the appeal for some in the EU.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#186723: May 4th 2017 at 4:13:05 AM

Yeah for thosue who aren't we're of how NATO expansion works it requires a total consensus from the existing members. That's how Rand Paul was able to block Montenegro joining (by blocking US approval).

So you'd need to convince Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania that Russia should be allowed into NATO, it ain't gonna happen.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#186724: May 4th 2017 at 4:26:12 AM

Also, it would take away from the unofficial NATO slogan: "Keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down."

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
WhatArtThee Since: Oct, 2015
#186725: May 4th 2017 at 4:51:18 AM

My brother said something interesting after Trump won.

He said it was good in the long term, because if he messes up bad, then things can flip Democrat in the 2018 Mid-terms, as well as in the 2020 presidential election.

I wonder what you guys think about that?

Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin

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