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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#186276: May 2nd 2017 at 3:00:20 PM

[up][up]You're right, that headline is the best.

[up]Interesting, I've never experienced that feeling.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#186277: May 2nd 2017 at 3:00:32 PM

That doesn't make you a bad American, just one of many who understand why electing this man was a terrible idea.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186278: May 2nd 2017 at 3:05:34 PM

I mean according to Marx Socialism is actually just the next natural evolutionary step after Capitalism, it's meant to be a gradual transition that a highly industrialised society goes though, not a rapid revolution in an underdeveloped society.

Capitalism -> State Capitalism-> Socialism

So the idea is that Capitalism is economic oligarchy and you need to transition from the private sector owning the means of production to State Capitalism where the state owns the means of production to Socialism where the workers own the means of production.

I don't think any country ever gets past the State Capitalism phase.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#186279: May 2nd 2017 at 3:06:25 PM

Yeah. I feel like asking, "How did it get to this point?" but I already know.

Do not obey in advance.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186280: May 2nd 2017 at 3:07:16 PM

It feels weird to have a President that I simply can't root for. It makes me feel like a "bad" American. I dunno.

I mean that is a straight up fascist sentiment. The idea that to be a good American you have to root for your president.

Did you root for Bush?

edited 2nd May '17 3:07:34 PM by MadSkillz

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#186281: May 2nd 2017 at 3:08:19 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]I feel like you should "root" for the president in the hopes that they actually end up doing some good, whatever your affiliation, but when you have someone like Trump, who's made it clear that most things are about his ego and spite, and most of the things he wants to do just aren't feasible, I don't see how it makes you a "bad American" to be happy that the bad things he wants to do aren't being done (for the most part, anyway).

edited 2nd May '17 3:08:55 PM by LSBK

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#186282: May 2nd 2017 at 3:09:10 PM

[up][up]Oh, no. I didn't care about Bush. I didn't care about politics as much back then. I know that a lot of people in Bush's cabinet were corrupt.

I get tired of Trump supporters saying that not supporting him makes you a "bad" American, like they're the only "true" Americans, because Trump is gonna stick it to The Man, man.

I wouldn't be surprised if it all turns out to be The Man Is Sticking It to the Man.

edited 2nd May '17 3:17:18 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#186283: May 2nd 2017 at 3:23:09 PM

I will say that it's wearying to apologize for my Americanness after eight years of generally being proud in the direction the country was going.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#186284: May 2nd 2017 at 3:42:03 PM

[up][up]No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy. It's entirely possible to be patriotic and love your country, while having no love for the government and/or the officials/party currently in power. And that is not doublethink.

edited 2nd May '17 3:45:23 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#186285: May 2nd 2017 at 3:48:13 PM

I agree. No True Scotsman is a terrible line of thinking when applied to just about everything, even fandoms.

Do not obey in advance.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#186286: May 2nd 2017 at 3:50:12 PM

I mean, it is a fallacy. By definition they're invalid reasonings.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#186287: May 2nd 2017 at 4:12:19 PM

There are other factors to consider as well, such as the motivation to excel. If you're always given everything you need and can never hope to strive to earn more, then there's no reason to try to become better than you are. If you do better yourself, then it is natural to believe that you deserve a larger share of the pie. People who share that belief will gravitate towards positions of authority and will, in time, dominate the society. On such dilemmas has Communism always failed.

I don't think pure socialism can work either, but I disagree that financial incentives are the only reason people would strive to accomplish things. Just a quick glance around this very website should reveal how powerful the innate human desire to create is, but even if you discount that, people can easily be motivated by non-material things like prestige. It's not a secret that a large percentage of the population desires fame just as much, if not more than, money. As long as we celebrate people for their accomplishments, I don't see why that wouldn't motivate them just as much as money. Isn't half the point of being rich just to publicly show off your success anyway? IE: Conspicuous Consumption.

edited 2nd May '17 4:13:34 PM by Clarste

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#186288: May 2nd 2017 at 4:14:37 PM

So in slightly more uplifting news, Jimmy Kimmel shared his experience dealing with his son's congenital heart defect last week.

The reason I'm posting it here is that he brings it around to the health insurance debate in the last 2 1/2 minutes, capping it with this.

“We were brought up to believe that we live in the greatest country in the world, but until a few years ago, millions and millions of us had no access to health insurance at all. Before 2014, if you were born with congenital heart disease like my son was, there was a good chance you’d never be able to get health insurance because you had a pre-existing condition. You were born with a pre-existing condition. And if your parents didn’t have medical insurance, you might not live long enough to even get denied because of a pre-existing condition.

If your baby is going to die, and it doesn’t have to, it shouldn’t matter how much money you make. I think that’s something that, whether you’re a Republican or a Democrat or something else, we all agree on that, right?”

edited 2nd May '17 4:16:30 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#186289: May 2nd 2017 at 4:27:45 PM

"Sorry Jimmy Kimmel: your sad story doesn't obligate me or anybody else to pay for somebody else's health care."

From Joe Walsh. This was a congressman.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#186290: May 2nd 2017 at 4:29:34 PM

I sometimes feel like these people don't understand how health insurance works.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#186291: May 2nd 2017 at 4:34:48 PM

[up]

Thankfully he's an ex-Congressman, riding the Tea Party wave into (and out of) Congress, 2011-2013.

Though I will say, this is one of those odd exceptions where he literally put his money where his mouth is as he apparently rejected his healthcare package as a congressperson even though it would've covered his wife's pre-existing condition. So while I abhor his values, I can at least respect the fact that he adheres to them so strongly.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#186292: May 2nd 2017 at 4:36:14 PM

It's at this point I remind everyone his 'values' don't stop him from being a deadbeat massively behind in child support payments

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#186293: May 2nd 2017 at 4:41:35 PM

If anyone asks you why the Civil War happened, here are the official reasons each state seceded in 4 nice graphs:

It's interesting Louisiana and North Carolina gave no reason in their official documents, and Tennessee said we have no opinion, we are just seceding.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#186294: May 2nd 2017 at 4:45:09 PM

The Civil War happened because the states tried to secede from the country. The reasons why they they tried to leave the union were mostly either directly or indirectly due to slavery.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#186295: May 2nd 2017 at 4:50:48 PM

Oh, they were very clear over the slavery thing.

It's just that after the war, the South began to try to reinvent itself from the guys who were literally planning to invade South America to spread and preserve slavery./ It helped that Alexander "Cornerstone Speech" Stephens was a guy helping to literally write the textbooks.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#186296: May 2nd 2017 at 4:53:30 PM

[up][up][up] I was about to say that I thought the 4 later Seceded States (Virginia, N. Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas) stated they left because of the Union's War on the Confederacy, but then I watched the Video and it says that was only Arkansas reason. Strange.

edited 2nd May '17 4:53:57 PM by DingoWalley1

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#186297: May 2nd 2017 at 5:05:21 PM

To be honest, I'm sympathetic to the idea of "why shouldn't States just be able to leave the Union when they no longer feel that it's benefiting them?" That doesn't mean I'd support them leaving, but it's not clear to me why they shouldn't have that right, in the same sense that the UK has the right to leave the EU.

That said, the Civil War was about the Southern states defending their right to keep slaves.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#186298: May 2nd 2017 at 5:14:11 PM

You don't get to utilise the right to self determination when keeping slaves, when you're denying much of your population the right to self determination you can't claim it yourself because yirue actively denying your population that right.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#186299: May 2nd 2017 at 5:17:48 PM

The four states that rebelled after Fort Sumter rebelled essentially because, without the rest of the slaver states backing them up in Congress, the Union became insanely lopsided in favor of free states. Which meant they could introduce more and more emancipation oriented legislation and the slavers who ruled over what was left of the American South would see their wealth and political power gradually diminished.

A slave power Virginia without the South would face decreasing influence in the face of growing New York and Ohio. A slave power Virginia as part of the Confederacy would regain its position as the most influential state.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#186300: May 2nd 2017 at 5:18:06 PM

[up][up]That's a fine and dandy after-the-fact moral rationalization, but it doesn't change the fact that any state isn't legally allowed to secede for any reason. If, for example, the situations had been reversed and the North had wanted to secede because they found the slavery of the South morally repugnant, there would would have been exactly as much legal justification for starting a civil war.

And of course in the modern day we can't seriously talk about California or New York seceding from a hyper-conservative USA that doesn't represent their culture and beliefs. Because that'd just be another civil war, and no one wants that.

edited 2nd May '17 5:18:47 PM by Clarste


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