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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186251: May 2nd 2017 at 12:24:24 PM

I'm with math.

@Fighteer I guess I would be a Neo-Keynesian with Marxist ideals. But I'd vote socialist in America if given the choice.

I might be a Marxist if there was ever a country that could show that the system could work.

edited 2nd May '17 12:32:29 PM by MadSkillz

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#186252: May 2nd 2017 at 12:28:45 PM

Just like pure libertarianism, pure socialism cannot work in practice because human nature prevents it. There will always be those who seek to cheat the system, and thus the society must adopt some degree of governance in order to maintain equality. It is also not possible for everyone to be perfectly equal, and over time those inequalities will form cysts that have to be treated.

There are other factors to consider as well, such as the motivation to excel. If you're always given everything you need and can never hope to strive to earn more, then there's no reason to try to become better than you are. If you do better yourself, then it is natural to believe that you deserve a larger share of the pie. People who share that belief will gravitate towards positions of authority and will, in time, dominate the society. On such dilemmas has Communism always failed.

edited 2nd May '17 12:33:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#186253: May 2nd 2017 at 12:37:24 PM

For my views, I guess I'd be a social democrat, with a pro-globalization bent. I believe humanity needs to start moving towards a single world government because many of the biggest societal problems (climate change, inequality, some human rights issues) nowadays are on a global scale and cannot be solved at a nation-per-nation level.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#186254: May 2nd 2017 at 12:39:45 PM

I'm just big on the social democrat ethos of 'equality, liberty and solidarity.' That and I think that, to some extent, people have forgotten that part of the social contract of living in a society isn't just your freedoms (which are important things), but also your obligations and civil duties to your fellow human beings.

This is one of the many problems from which tax dodgers are made.

[up] Welcome to the social democrat club. Want a free leaflet and/or copy of the Worker's Book of Songs? note 

edited 2nd May '17 12:40:25 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#186255: May 2nd 2017 at 12:44:43 PM

I am most definitely a social democrat, but as I've said, I don't believe that human beings are capable of functioning in a pure socialism; there must exist the capability for market incentives to drive innovation and efficiency. In short, I believe in mixed economies, where capitalist enterprises compete within a system tightly regulated by a transparent, democratic government, with public services either nationalized or regulated and subsidized.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#186256: May 2nd 2017 at 12:45:15 PM

I might be a Marxist if there was ever a country that could show that the system could work.

That seems like a somewhat pointless distinction given there's never been a country where it did work, and that the logical takeaway from that is that the system is broken. If every attempt at building the worker's paradise gets a Stalinist hellhole there is something wrong with the idea.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#186257: May 2nd 2017 at 12:52:26 PM

[up] Not all of them devolved into Stalinist hellholes.

Some of them became Maoist hellholes.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#186258: May 2nd 2017 at 12:55:46 PM

And don't forget Chavist hellholes. tongue

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#186259: May 2nd 2017 at 12:55:59 PM

I've got my copy of the Communist Party manifesto somewhere.

Communism/full Socialism is one of thosue things that shodul be strived for but never achieved, it's a goal but one that we can never achive because to do so we'd have to compromise other key things (personal freedoms and democracy being the big two), but we should try and get as close as we can without compromising thosue other key principles.

My background will have had a big impact on my ideology, I spent six years at a boarding school that was basically a (very) small scale anarch-social commune.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186260: May 2nd 2017 at 12:59:26 PM

@math I won't lie but even though I don't like the USSR, I gotta admit they have the best epic songs:

That seems like a somewhat pointless distinction given there's never been a country where it did work, and that the logical takeaway from that is that the system is broken. If every attempt at building the worker's paradise gets a Stalinist hellhole there is something wrong with the idea.

Not necessarily. There are different variations of Marxism. All of them failed thus far but maybe one day someone can find one that works. So I'm not closing the door on it.

But I believe in the ideals behind it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#186261: May 2nd 2017 at 1:04:05 PM

As a reminder, "someday someone can find one that works" has been applied to all sorts of loony ideas, many of which are diametrically opposed to Marxism. For example, it is the current mantra of the Republican Party, whose ideology "cannot fail, only be failed". In that sense the GOP shares enormous similarity with the Soviet Union, which would probably scandalize all of those devoted capitalists.

edited 2nd May '17 1:05:18 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#186262: May 2nd 2017 at 1:04:26 PM

I think we may be deviating from US politics here. Perhaps this is better suited for the General Politics thread?

Also, The DCCC is buying TV ads to help Rob Quist in a special election in Montana.

edited 2nd May '17 1:10:11 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#186263: May 2nd 2017 at 1:09:30 PM

@Fighteer To be fair, I'm not pushing to experiment.

Social democratic governments have proven to work. Socialist governments not so much so I'll push for the former over the latter every time.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#186264: May 2nd 2017 at 1:14:13 PM

[up][up]

I really freaking hope they extol the virtues of voting for him, rather than just badmouth the opposition. That shit is what assured Maffei's loss in my district, as they kept running the same three talking points about his opponent in the race.

edited 2nd May '17 1:16:25 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#186265: May 2nd 2017 at 1:53:21 PM

If you get lucky, Republicans will be caught unaware.

In other news, Los Angeles now has 4 million inhabitants and still growing. Housing's an issue there as well, though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#186266: May 2nd 2017 at 2:09:27 PM

There was mention of special elections, about what?

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#186267: May 2nd 2017 at 2:09:43 PM

Are we still talking about our personal political leanings?

If so, here's roughly where I stand, I think it can be summed up quite simply as:

1) Capitalism is a fantastic system for generating wealth...
2)...But often fails to distribute that wealth fairly...
3)...So steps need to be taken to ensure that the benefits and possibilities are open to everyone.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#186268: May 2nd 2017 at 2:13:59 PM

[up]And thus was born economic socialism.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#186269: May 2nd 2017 at 2:15:55 PM

[up]Socialism is explicitly an opposition towards capitalism, what they are sounds like Social Democrat.

edited 2nd May '17 2:16:10 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#186270: May 2nd 2017 at 2:19:30 PM

[up]Right, probably should have followed my quip with an explanation-modern socialism was envisioned as a full replacement, with difficulties exposed during the last century have lead economic theory to more nuanced strains of thought.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#186271: May 2nd 2017 at 2:19:56 PM

I mean according to Marx Socialism is actually just the next natural evolutionary step after Capitalism, it's meant to be a gradual transition that a highly industrialised society goes though, not a rapid revolution in an underdeveloped society.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#186272: May 2nd 2017 at 2:25:30 PM

A mite offtopic, perhaps?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#186273: May 2nd 2017 at 2:47:04 PM

There was mention of special elections, about what?

I posted it. Jon Ossoff (The Democrat) has a 1% lead against Karen Handel (The Republican) in a recent Poll. It's gonna be close...

edited 2nd May '17 2:53:37 PM by DingoWalley1

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#186274: May 2nd 2017 at 2:51:22 PM

Oh my god, I love this headline. Slightly old news - we already knew Trump was talking about maybe shutting down the government in September - but best way of phrasing it:

White House: Government Shutdown Possible If Democrats Keep Hurting Trump’s Feelings

edited 2nd May '17 2:51:54 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#186275: May 2nd 2017 at 2:56:35 PM

It feels weird to have a President that I simply can't root for. It makes me feel like a "bad" American. I dunno.

Do not obey in advance.

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