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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#185926: May 1st 2017 at 10:18:43 AM

After the country burned down. So, you saying Tobias is right and you need to let the Red States fry for their choices?

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185927: May 1st 2017 at 10:18:52 AM

But reunification was achieved peacefully. And that's that, OK?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185928: May 1st 2017 at 10:18:53 AM

The point, however, is that they had to lose stuff in order to come around to that realization.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185929: May 1st 2017 at 10:19:30 AM

[up][up][up] NO.

Would you guys stop assuming a Hobbes Was Right doctrine?!

edited 1st May '17 10:19:40 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#185930: May 1st 2017 at 10:20:07 AM

That's because we bombed the shit out of Germany, killed thousands of their countrymen, and mandated that they rebuild their society from the ground up, and that was us going easy on them, since simultaneously, we promoted the myth of the Clean Wehrmacht — that your average Nazi German Joe was a Punch-Clock Villain with no malice in his heart and no blood on his hands. Unless you're suggesting the same be done to the South and the Midwest, we have to accept that a good portion of them are intractably stupid and malicious no matter what we do.

edited 1st May '17 10:26:31 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#185931: May 1st 2017 at 10:22:05 AM

So, that report Septimus posted is very interesting. Now, what the fuck makes someone flip from having voted Obama in 2012 (and 2008) to voting Trump in 2016? And how can the Democrats recover those voters?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185932: May 1st 2017 at 10:22:33 AM

[up][up] You're way too jaded. Nowadays, most of the world can achieve changed with words, not with wars as it was beforehand.

edited 1st May '17 10:22:45 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#185933: May 1st 2017 at 10:23:52 AM

Rumour given by some other reports is that a more strongly pro-working class rhetoric did. And not offering drivel like TPP/TTIP did it perhaps as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#185934: May 1st 2017 at 10:23:56 AM

@Luigi

If you don't like the trend this conversation is going, you only have yourself to blame. Tobias said that the WWC has to be left to suffer because otherwise they won't understand voting for Trump was bad. You said you were against that, said they could come around, and then cited Germany as an example of people coming around.

Problem is, the Germans only came around after the Allies set their nation on fire. It took millions of war dead, a two-pronged invasion, and the reduction of their cities to piles of rubble before the average German realized this was a bad idea. Even then the de-Nazification process took far too long, and no one within Germany really wanted to talk about the Holocaust and all that had happened until 1960s or later.

So, you keep citing the German example, we'll keep telling you that you're advocating to burn down the Red States. Because you are.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#185935: May 1st 2017 at 10:24:23 AM

[up][up][up][up]My guess being the same reason people were turned off by Romney they were turned off by Hilary. Which might not be fair to her, but it's what a lot of people thought.

It's definitely where a lot of people, Democrat or Republican where I am thought.

edited 1st May '17 10:24:58 AM by LSBK

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#185936: May 1st 2017 at 10:26:12 AM

Luigi: Why shouldn't we?

Or in other words, do not make a Nazi Germany comparison in the vicinity of people who don't buy Clean Wehrmacht garbage.

There is a world of difference between, say, the White Rose and the Wehrmacht officers who were aware that the war was no longer winnable yet oversaw these.

Sometimes, negotiation ceases to be an option.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185937: May 1st 2017 at 10:26:59 AM

[up][up] No...I wasn't trying to...I didn't meant to suggest that...I was just referring in modern standards, not in past standards.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#185938: May 1st 2017 at 10:27:30 AM

You claimed post WW 2 Germany as an example of a country turning around from its evil ways. We pointed out that the key word in that sentence was "post-WW 2." We aren't being cynical, we're pointing out the historical context if your example.

Ignoring context does not make you optimistic. It makes you foolish.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185939: May 1st 2017 at 10:28:49 AM

[up]............sad

edited 1st May '17 10:29:02 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185940: May 1st 2017 at 10:29:22 AM

Guys, I think he gets it. We don't need to dogpile.

No one's advocating declaring war on the Red states and burning their cities, Luigi. Think of it more as an issue of parenting. Trump voters are the kid in the supermarket screaming and hitting things because he didn't get his way.

How do you solve that? I don't actually know the answer. I'm not a parent. There are probably actual parents in this thread more qualified than I am to answer it. But I do know one thing that's not the answer: you do not correct this behavior by giving the child a pat on the back and a lollipop and telling him he's doing a good thing.

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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185941: May 1st 2017 at 10:32:07 AM

[up] Or, teach him the values that comes with patience?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#185942: May 1st 2017 at 10:33:38 AM

They're coal miners or were coal miners until very recently, they reckon they're plenty patient.

edited 1st May '17 10:33:46 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#185943: May 1st 2017 at 10:34:58 AM

Look, when you're trying to teach a kid not to touch an open flame, the best way is to let them get burned once, so they know not to do it again. I mean, a huge part of the problem is that these idiot voters keep asking, "What if...?" like "What if we gave corporations political rights," or "What if we built a wall over the southern border?" or "What if we put political neophyte businessmen in charge of the government?" And because we have, as a society, an anti-intellectual hatred of knowledge and the experts that have it, we immediately shut our ears when everyone says, "Don't do it! It'll be horrible!"

You need to let them touch the flame, so that they know what it feels like to be burned. The only problem is that these morons set their ballots on fire, and when that happens, we all get burned.

edited 1st May '17 10:36:11 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185944: May 1st 2017 at 10:36:42 AM

[up] While we maybe shouldn't let them be burned if we can help it, we should try to make sure that when it eventually happens despite the efforts of those actually looking out for them, that they know just who to really blame.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#185945: May 1st 2017 at 10:37:23 AM

Let it also be known that red states DID burn. That only made them angrier and more resentful.

New Survey coming this weekend!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185947: May 1st 2017 at 10:55:11 AM

Yes, they did. We burned them. We burned them to the ground, made them fall in line, but then turned around and coddled them. We let them keep their flag. We let them keep as much of their way of life as we could. We let them keep on hating the blacks and hating us.

We made the Confederate populace fall in line but never actually ended the Confederacy. Instead, we brought them into our home, sheltered their toxic values, and let them spread their poison from within and grow their power base nestled safely in the comfort of our acceptance.

The Confederacy is the Hydra to our S.H.I.E.L.D., so to speak.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#185948: May 1st 2017 at 10:59:45 AM

So many traitors that should've been executed, got away scott free. Johnson fucking us over. Grant Fucking us over. Mothefucking Rutherford pulling Federal Troops out.

Reconstruction was a clusterfuck from Day 1.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#185949: May 1st 2017 at 11:14:01 AM

Reconstruction's best days were under Grant — American troops fucked up the original KKK by his order. The people who really fucked up were Grant's congressional rivals, like Charles Sumner (yes, he who got nearly clubbed to death by a Southerner), who let their distaste for Grant's cabinet color how they saw Reconstruction.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185950: May 1st 2017 at 11:18:12 AM

Eeyup. And now that conflict rages to this day in the halls of Congress, because instead of destroying them like the Nazis, we allowed the Confederacy to consolidate its powerbase and come back stronger.

As I've said before and am more than happy to say again, the American Civil War never ended. It just got quieter.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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