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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185901: May 1st 2017 at 9:32:51 AM

[up][up][up][up] OTOH, if the Democrats do fail to protect the WWC from GOP shenanigans, they will probably blame the Democrats for it somehow. They'll claim obstructionism or something, even though the Democratic Party does not actually have the numbers to do that. Anything to avoid admitting that they might have made a mistake with their red vote.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#185902: May 1st 2017 at 9:33:36 AM

[up][up][up][up]Bleak or not it makes sense, they have every reason to credit any improvement with the Republicans and any setback to the Democratic Party. It's fairly basic tribalism, your tribe is good and the enemy tribe is evil so all good things must come from your tribe and bad things from the enemy.

edited 1st May '17 9:33:56 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185903: May 1st 2017 at 9:35:21 AM

[up] Yet they can be swept away.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185904: May 1st 2017 at 9:36:30 AM

Well, the "good news" is that the Trump administration is unlikely to do anything to improve the quality of life for the coal folks, so...

Never mind that their largest recent quality of life change came from Obamacare, which is why its repeal and/or replacement has run into such startlingly intense rejection.

Yes. But the bad news is that they're also unlikely to do anything to reduce the quality of life for coal folks so long as Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to protect the GOP's constituency from the actions of their own elected representatives.

By convincing Paul Ryan not to f*ck over coal country, the Democrats have made it possible for coal miners to rest soundly in bed knowing they made the right choice in voting Republican. Because they don't see the Democrats arguing with Paul Ryan over it. They just see the cause and effect:

  1. Voted red.
  2. Got positive results.

Fact is, the WWC voted for Trump. If we want that blue wave we keep talking about, we need to let them have Trump.

edited 1st May '17 9:37:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#185905: May 1st 2017 at 9:38:53 AM

[up][up]With what? Loose overburden?

Trump cut short an interview with CBS anchor John Dickerson and gestured for him to leave when he was questioned about his unfounded wiretapping allegations.

Yeah, this would have been real handy six months ago.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#185906: May 1st 2017 at 9:39:34 AM

So the Dems basically the WWC free healthcare and the WWC will STILL vote Republican. And all the Dems get out of this is claiming the moral high ground which will then be used to claim they are out of touch with the common man (that strangely doesn't count minorities or women)

Peachy.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185907: May 1st 2017 at 9:41:05 AM

[up][up] No, Heel Realization.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#185908: May 1st 2017 at 9:41:22 AM

[up][up]Yes. Which is why, basically, the only solution to this problem is for Democratic voters to get the hell to the polls. We kill the WWC with kindness: give them economic stability whether they recognize it or not, so that they don't feel the outrage needed to make them go out and vote against those "evil libruls".

edited 1st May '17 9:41:39 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185909: May 1st 2017 at 9:45:04 AM

So the Dems basically the WWC free healthcare and the WWC will STILL vote Republican. And all the Dems get out of this is claiming the moral high ground which will then be used to claim they are out of touch with the common man (that strangely doesn't count minorities or women)

More or less. Going home satisfied that you did the right thing is all well and good, but when it comes to leading a nation, it only counts if people know you did it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#185910: May 1st 2017 at 9:45:54 AM

[up][up] Until they see black and brown people getting too "uppity" and prosperous and the cycle starts right back over again.

edited 1st May '17 9:46:03 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#185911: May 1st 2017 at 9:46:49 AM

Fact is, the WWC voted for Trump. If we want that blue wave we keep talking about, we need to let them have Trump.

I'd rather not role the dice on an accelerationist solution that might backfire anyway if the WWC are as tribally delusional as you think.[up]

[up][up][up],[up] At some point you'll just have to accept at that least some of these people are beyond redemption.

edited 1st May '17 9:48:29 AM by Mio

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#185912: May 1st 2017 at 9:50:01 AM

[up][up] Not necessarily. The thing is that they want prosperity for themselves first, and if they get that, they won't spend so much time worrying about what the people across the fences are getting. Sure, some soreheads will still be around, but the critical thing is that they won't be motivated to get out and vote their anger if they are happy at home.

Disgustingly, the Republican Party has a cynical motivation to keep the WWC feeling economically disenfranchised, because they know they can channel the consequent anger against Democrats.

[up][up][up][up] Part of the collapse of the Democratic Party was their refusal to stand behind Obamacare to their constituents in 2010. This was perhaps the most critical messaging failure of the Obama administration and it set the stage for the Republican opposition for the remainder of his terms.

[down] If Trump provokes a trade war that harms the U.S. coal industry, it would be so deliciously ironic.

edited 1st May '17 9:55:39 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185913: May 1st 2017 at 9:52:14 AM

Speaking of Trump being the coal miners' president...

The Premiere of British Columbia Christy Clark wants to ban thermal coal from B.C. ports in retaliation for the soft lumber tariff.

Apparently this is something she's wanted for a while now because coal fucks up the environment, but let it slide because the USA was (emphasis past tense) a good ally and trading partner. The tariff is a sign that this is no longer the case.

This would be very, very bad for the USA's coal industry.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185914: May 1st 2017 at 9:56:12 AM

Happiness is relative, though. What makes them happy is knowing they have more and better stuff than the people across the fence. That's not a sustainable political model if we also want to even out the quality of life across all fences.

If the WWC is only happy provided they get to have shinier toys than minorities, and we want minorities to have toys just as shiny as the WWC, then these objectives become mutually exclusive. Every time someone else's slice of the pie increases, the WWC's slice is reduced, and then they go out and vote their anger.

I don't think keeping them pacified is an option unless we're content to accept the uneven status quo they fight for.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185915: May 1st 2017 at 9:58:17 AM

[up]

I don't think keeping them pacified is an option unless we're content to accept the uneven status quo they fight for.

And that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen. If the Democratic Party actually goes in that direction...

BTW, were you the one who mentioned way back in the thread that your mother voted Trump because a Mexican family had a better car?

edited 1st May '17 10:00:30 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#185916: May 1st 2017 at 10:01:16 AM

I mean, being apart of Congress is supposed to be so you can help as many of the American people as you can right? Not to get to sappy or optimistic, but just because a lot of Republicans are hypocrites, and their constituents, for various reasons can't see that, doesn't mean the ones who aren't should just go "fuck them".

And I can't really get as indigent about this as a lot of you because of the giant elephant in the room: that a lot of Democratic voters have no idea about policy either, has just kind of being ignored because it's convenient.

And I don't like to bring this up, because I'm aware it's much worse on the Republican's side, but, people voting for what "sounds right" over what actually works is not surprising. It just so happens that what "sounds right" to a lot of low-information Democrats is also generally more economically sound than the alternative.

Edit: Anyway, wasn't Trumps victory more due to middle and upper-middle class white people? Why so much focus on working class white people?

edited 1st May '17 10:04:00 AM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#185917: May 1st 2017 at 10:08:15 AM

And that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen. If the Democratic Party actually goes in that direction...

Exactly.

BTW, were you the one who mentioned way back in the thread that your mother voted Trump because a Mexican family had a better car?

Yeah, that was me.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185918: May 1st 2017 at 10:11:37 AM

I don't care what you guys say, redemption is still possible for these kind of people. The Germans stopped being delusional, so can they.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#185919: May 1st 2017 at 10:13:57 AM

The Germans were kinda forced to by law IIRC. No such law exists here.

i'm tired, my friend
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#185920: May 1st 2017 at 10:14:35 AM

At gunpoint. After millions of them were shot and their country burned to the ground. You guys gonna torch all the Red States?

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#185922: May 1st 2017 at 10:15:46 AM

A sort of official report on why Hillary lost is out: Spoiler: It was not turnout.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#185923: May 1st 2017 at 10:16:46 AM

Yes, but still, they even started dropping support on Hitler as of late 1944. Only the Nazis were delusional in thinking the war could be won, but the commons people were seeing how much they lost.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#185924: May 1st 2017 at 10:17:57 AM

...again, as a result of a world war.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#185925: May 1st 2017 at 10:18:14 AM

We're all too domesticated for that. Plus, stuff like that inevitably catches up the millions of people in Red States (like me) who aren't Republicans.


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