Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
![]()
![]()
![]()
Bleak or not it makes sense, they have every reason to credit any improvement with the Republicans and any setback to the Democratic Party. It's fairly basic tribalism, your tribe is good and the enemy tribe is evil so all good things must come from your tribe and bad things from the enemy.
edited 1st May '17 9:33:56 AM by Fourthspartan56
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangNever mind that their largest recent quality of life change came from Obamacare, which is why its repeal and/or replacement has run into such startlingly intense rejection.
Yes. But the bad news is that they're also unlikely to do anything to reduce the quality of life for coal folks so long as Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to protect the GOP's constituency from the actions of their own elected representatives
.
By convincing Paul Ryan not to f*ck over coal country, the Democrats have made it possible for coal miners to rest soundly in bed knowing they made the right choice in voting Republican. Because they don't see the Democrats arguing with Paul Ryan over it. They just see the cause and effect:
- Voted red.
- Got positive results.
Fact is, the WWC voted for Trump. If we want that blue wave we keep talking about, we need to let them have Trump.
edited 1st May '17 9:37:49 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
With what? Loose overburden?
Yeah, this would have been real handy six months ago.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot![]()
Yes. Which is why, basically, the only solution to this problem is for Democratic voters to get the hell to the polls. We kill the WWC with kindness: give them economic stability whether they recognize it or not, so that they don't feel the outrage needed to make them go out and vote against those "evil libruls".
edited 1st May '17 9:41:39 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"More or less. Going home satisfied that you did the right thing is all well and good, but when it comes to leading a nation, it only counts if people know you did it.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'd rather not role the dice on an accelerationist solution that might backfire anyway if the WWC are as tribally delusional as you think.
![]()
![]()
,
At some point you'll just have to accept at that least some of these people are beyond redemption.
edited 1st May '17 9:48:29 AM by Mio
![]()
Not necessarily. The thing is that they want prosperity for themselves first, and if they get that, they won't spend so much time worrying about what the people across the fences are getting. Sure, some soreheads will still be around, but the critical thing is that they won't be motivated to get out and vote their anger if they are happy at home.
Disgustingly, the Republican Party has a cynical motivation to keep the WWC feeling economically disenfranchised, because they know they can channel the consequent anger against Democrats.
![]()
![]()
![]()
Part of the collapse of the Democratic Party was their refusal to stand behind Obamacare to their constituents in 2010. This was perhaps the most critical messaging failure of the Obama administration and it set the stage for the Republican opposition for the remainder of his terms.
If Trump provokes a trade war that harms the U.S. coal industry, it would be so deliciously ironic.
edited 1st May '17 9:55:39 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Speaking of Trump being the coal miners' president...
Apparently this is something she's wanted for a while now because coal fucks up the environment, but let it slide because the USA was (emphasis past tense) a good ally and trading partner. The tariff is a sign that this is no longer the case.
This would be very, very bad for the USA's coal industry.
Disgusted, but not surprisedHappiness is relative, though. What makes them happy is knowing they have more and better stuff than the people across the fence. That's not a sustainable political model if we also want to even out the quality of life across all fences.
If the WWC is only happy provided they get to have shinier toys than minorities, and we want minorities to have toys just as shiny as the WWC, then these objectives become mutually exclusive. Every time someone else's slice of the pie increases, the WWC's slice is reduced, and then they go out and vote their anger.
I don't think keeping them pacified is an option unless we're content to accept the uneven status quo they fight for.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
And that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen. If the Democratic Party actually goes in that direction...
BTW, were you the one who mentioned way back in the thread that your mother voted Trump because a Mexican family had a better car?
edited 1st May '17 10:00:30 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedI mean, being apart of Congress is supposed to be so you can help as many of the American people as you can right? Not to get to sappy or optimistic, but just because a lot of Republicans are hypocrites, and their constituents, for various reasons can't see that, doesn't mean the ones who aren't should just go "fuck them".
And I can't really get as indigent about this as a lot of you because of the giant elephant in the room: that a lot of Democratic voters have no idea about policy either, has just kind of being ignored because it's convenient.
And I don't like to bring this up, because I'm aware it's much worse on the Republican's side, but, people voting for what "sounds right" over what actually works is not surprising. It just so happens that what "sounds right" to a lot of low-information Democrats is also generally more economically sound than the alternative.
Edit: Anyway, wasn't Trumps victory more due to middle and upper-middle class white people? Why so much focus on working class white people?
edited 1st May '17 10:04:00 AM by LSBK
Exactly.
Yeah, that was me.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.A sort of official report on why Hillary lost is out
: Spoiler: It was not turnout.

![[up] [up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png)
![[up] [up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png)
![[up] [up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png)
OTOH, if the Democrats do fail to protect the WWC from GOP shenanigans, they will probably blame the Democrats for it somehow. They'll claim obstructionism or something, even though the Democratic Party does not actually have the numbers to do that. Anything to avoid admitting that they might have made a mistake with their red vote.
Disgusted, but not surprised