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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#185701: Apr 30th 2017 at 6:28:19 AM

It’s difficult to pinpoint whether a specific tax cut leads to economic growth, but lowering the tax burden can sometimes spur the economy, said Nicole Kaeding, an economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington, D.C., research group.

She cited North Carolina as a state that cut individual and corporate tax rates while expanding the sales tax base.

However, she said, tax revenue ‘‘is just one side of the equation. If you just cut tax revenue but don’t cut spending, the state of course is going to have a budget issue.’’

I sincerely hope Ms. Kaeding is not indicative of the economists at this place. Even if that N. Carolina example resulted in zero revenue loss (which she did not say), it says nothing about lowering the tax burden. At a glance, she's just praising taxes getting more regressive. At least she acknowledges that the state has to take in money at the end. That's something...

edited 30th Apr '17 6:29:28 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#185702: Apr 30th 2017 at 6:53:09 AM

IIRC, NC's 2016 (400 million-ish)surplus was credited more to the fact that the state pursued tax collection much more aggressively than they had before. Especially among the poor Mc Crory's sales tax increase was also thoroughly reviled and probably cost him a few voters in the end.

Under Mc Crory the surplus never really made it back into the economy either. Instead he put it into what he called a "rainy day fund" with a very loose interpretation of what counted as a rainy day. We'll see how things change,if at all, under the new guy.

edited 30th Apr '17 6:56:27 AM by carbon-mantis

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185703: Apr 30th 2017 at 7:10:55 AM

Am I the only one who feels really, really angry about the "four days of school a week" thing? That is screwing kids' futures.

[up] Yep. Lower taxes for everyone...except the poor! Because fuck'em. That's the Republican way!

edited 30th Apr '17 7:16:26 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#185704: Apr 30th 2017 at 7:55:30 AM

My local newspaper (Reading Eagle) ran a front-page story today covering Trump's "first 100 days" rally in Harrisburg, with a picture showing him in front of a ginormous banner proclaiming: "PROMISES MADE — PROMISES KEPT."

Oh, puh-leeze. I think I'm going to be violently ill.

The Great Pumpkinhead has made lots of grandiose promises, but to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't lived up to a single one of them. Ever, in his entire life.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#185705: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:08:05 AM

From The Daily Beast, "Outside the Bubble", The Arrogance of Blue America.

It argues that blue policies have really hurt red areas. I wonder how true this is.

Some on the left recognize the hypocrisy of progressives’ abandoning the toiling masses. “Blue state secession is no better an idea than Confederate secession was,” observes one progressive journalist. “The Confederates wanted to draw themselves into a cocoon so they could enslave and exploit people. The blue state secessionists want to draw themselves into a cocoon so they can ignore the exploited people of America.”

Ironically, many of the most exploited people reside in blue states and cities. Both segregation and impoverishment has worsened during the decades-long urban “comeback,” as even longtime urban enthusiast Richard Florida now notes. Chicago, with its soaring crime rates and middle class out-migration, amidst a wave of elite corporate relocations, epitomizes the increasingly unequal tenor of blue societies.

In contrast the most egalitarian places, like Utah, tend to be largely Trump-friendly. Among the 10 states (and D.C.) with the most income inequality, seven supported Clinton in 2016, while seven of the 10 most equal states supported Trump.

If you want to see worst impacts of blue policies, go to those red regions—like upstate New York—controlled by the blue bourgeoise. Backwaters like these tend to be treated at best as a recreational colony that otherwise can depopulate, deindustrialize, and in general fall apart. In California, much of the poorer interior is being left to rot by policies imposed by a Bay Area regime hostile to suburban development, industrial growth, and large scale agriculture.

The blue bourgeoisie’s self-celebration rests on multiple misunderstandings of geography, demography, and economics. To be sure, the deep blue cites are vitally important but it’s increasingly red states, and regions, that provide critical opportunities for upward mobility for middle- and working-class families.

Is any of this true? Why or why not?

edited 30th Apr '17 8:15:26 AM by BonsaiForest

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#185706: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:15:01 AM

Hurting this narrative is how badly these people are responsible for their own exploitation.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185707: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:20:11 AM

Oh yes, because it's totally Blue America's fault that Red America still thinks trickle-down has merit!

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#185708: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:21:33 AM

[up][up][up]Blaming Chicago on Blue policies? That seems incredibly cherry picked, furthermore suggesting that Ohio is egalitarian is something that I find very questionable.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#185709: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:22:55 AM

The part on housing shortages is partly true insofar as blue areas tend to have that problem. Alas, if memory serves often Republican voters tend to be particularly bad about it, at least in San Diego.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#185710: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:30:47 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]One of the big advantages red-states have is that they are typically much cheaper then their blue-state counterparts, because of lower taxes, lower property values, etc. It's something that red states love to tout in order to bring more people in.

What often doesn't get said is that job opportunities and wages in these areas are much more middling or even stagnant, and also public services are much weaker as well. You would be hard pressed to find a red state metropolitan area with decent mass-transit or sometimes even roadways (see Atlanta highway fire and collapse).

edited 30th Apr '17 8:30:57 AM by Mio

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185711: Apr 30th 2017 at 8:33:38 AM

[up] You get what you pay for...

Disgusted, but not surprised
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#185712: Apr 30th 2017 at 9:01:16 AM

The example of an egalitarian state is Utah. Uh, Utah is kind of weird for a red state, because the state government is dominated by the Mormons. Culturally it's not the same as, say, Missouri. Utah is a red state yes, but it can't be held up as an example of all red states.

It doesn't help that a lot of those things mentioned as downsides of blue states are just a part of having a major metropolitan area.

edited 30th Apr '17 9:02:30 AM by Zendervai

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#185713: Apr 30th 2017 at 9:15:06 AM

Attorney General Jeff Sessions signals to Colorado Governor that he may not go after Recreational Marijuana. He even is reported to have said the Cole Memorandum, an Obama era Executive Order that makes Federal Law enforcers ignore State-Legal Marijuana use, is 'not far from a Good Policy.'

That'd be nice if it's true, but the Trump Administration really likes to Flip Flop a lot, so I'm not sure if he's just saying that, or if he means it but will change later, or if he means it and won't go after it at all, or what...

edited 30th Apr '17 9:15:56 AM by DingoWalley1

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185714: Apr 30th 2017 at 9:27:23 AM

[up] I guess Sessions finally realized that black people aren't the only ones who use marijuana...

edited 30th Apr '17 10:04:39 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#185715: Apr 30th 2017 at 9:37:48 AM

Didnt session joke he didnt join the KKK because of smoking Pot? Im probably confunsing him with someone else

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#185716: Apr 30th 2017 at 9:45:39 AM

Nope, that was him.

i'm tired, my friend
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#185717: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:07:05 AM

It argues that blue policies have really hurt red areas. I wonder how true this is.
It's largely untrue. While one can reasonably criticize both parties for not doing enough to help poor rural areas (which skews overwhelmingly conservative), Democratic economic policy is almost universally better for those areas than Republican policy is. Without getting into too much detail (literal books can be written on the subject), Democratic policy taxes the rich in order to provide services for the poor, while Republican policy cuts taxes (and the services they provide) for everyone. Since it's the poor who actually need the government services, they tend to do better under Democratic policy.

Republicans maintain their hold on these areas despite their policies being objectively worse for the people living there in two ways. First, social issues. Rural areas lean conservative on social issues for a variety of reasons, and this means they align more with Republicans with Democrats. Second, propaganda. Republicans have very successfully convinced rural America than Democratic economic policy doesn't benefit them, it steals from them to benefit other people. This attitude is largely rooted in conscious or unconscious racism — it began back in the 1960s, when there was a huge backlash among working-class white people against the Civil Rights Movement (a social issue, as I mentioned above). The Republican party used what's called the "Southern Strategy" to flip areas (mostly in the South, thus the name) that had voted largely Democratic on economic platforms to vote largely Republican on social platforms... by convincing them that they were doing so on an economic platform. This is where a very large number of racist dogwhistles (like "welfare queen" and "thug") comes from.

More specifically, though the article mentions "economic equality", it doesn't mention that most of the more-equal places it's talking about are more equal because they're universally poor.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#185718: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:08:58 AM

Yeah, a state that can't even fund its own schools properly, and in a really obvious way like only four days a week, ain't gonna attract many rich people or businesses. It would be more likely to cause people to leave because the state clearly can't do its job properly.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#185719: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:22:04 AM

[up][up][awesome]

So that article was bs? Can't say I'm very surprised.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#185721: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:30:56 AM

Welll he's right. I never found it surprising that he would.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#185722: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:31:19 AM

[up][up]Well that's just delightful, and somehow Hillary was the warmonger. Everyday he weakens our national interests, god I loath the GOP base.

edited 30th Apr '17 10:31:45 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185723: Apr 30th 2017 at 10:36:55 AM

"I don't know"

Well, that's pretty much the first honest thing I've ever heard Trump say. Man doesn't have a clue wtf he's doing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#185724: Apr 30th 2017 at 11:27:45 AM

On the blue states bankrolling red states funding, while that does seem to be overwhelmingly true, I'd image that would still be the case even if the tax system was reformed to be overwhelmingly progressive. What with the likes of California, New Jersey and New York, and the New England, overwhelming having the most super wealthy, and even just high income people.

I understand the complaint gets lodged because of the irony of the situation, but the implication that taxation should be 1:1 always struck me as weird with what most liberals say (and believe) on the actual reasons for taxes.

I get that there are other factors involved, but it strikes me as the likes of "the blue states would be better off as their own countries because they give more money" bit, which apparently much more complicated than that statement implies.

edited 30th Apr '17 11:29:56 AM by LSBK

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#185725: Apr 30th 2017 at 11:30:43 AM

[up]I never interpreted it as complaining, just that they complain about the Liberals and Liberal policy while heavily relying on both. So many Liberals notice the irony. And I highly doubt that blue states being their own country is in any way a non-fringe position.

edited 30th Apr '17 11:31:24 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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