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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#185476: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:11:34 PM

[up][up][up][up]It's got wide support in both houses despite Democrats not liking parts of it. They can override a veto easy. I'm sure the Democrats would be on board with rebuking Trump over a one-week extension.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:12:44 PM by TheRoguePenguin

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#185477: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:11:43 PM

You guys didn't notice that Shutdown crisis was averted until next week.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:13:52 PM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#185478: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:12:34 PM

I can see the argument that Trump was elected by the elites, specifically the elites in the boardrooms of CNN, Fox and similar. They worked very hard to help keep Trump in the race and enable him to con the anxious middle-class that voted for him.

However none of that explains why Mad thinks that locking the common man out of controlling politicans (via introducing term limits) is a good idea.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#185479: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:13:36 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185480: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:15:09 PM

[up][up][up]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13103447000A18674100&page=7416#185394

We did. Then we got sidetracked by Madskillz claiming that term limits for Senators were a good idea. Most people here disagree.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#185481: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:16:35 PM

All that study says is that the influence of campaign contributions is reduced in states with term limits, not that overall cooperate influence is limited or reduced.

again, campaign contributions are not the only way in which big money gains influence over politicans, it's foolish to think that they only come at politicans form one angle.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#185482: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:16:55 PM

However none of that explains why Mad thinks that locking the common man out of controlling politicans (via introducing term limits) is a good idea.

Because I don't think it would actually lock out the common man. If someone's worried about the next election and the next election after that, they're worried more about getting enough campaign money and that means not stepping onto the donor's toes.

again, campaign contributions are not the only way in which big money gains influence over politicans, it's foolish to think that they only come at politicans form one angle.

That's not my argument though. I never said it only comes from one angle.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:18:00 PM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185483: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:17:22 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking job offers in the private sector would be much more tempting to people with term limits.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#185484: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:18:01 PM

The Freedom Caucus will back an amended version of the GOP healthcare bill.

The amendment in question:

The Mac Arthur amendment, proposed by moderate Rep. Tom Mac Arthur, R-N.J., will make essential health benefits — requiring plans to cover things like prescription drugs or maternity care - the federal standard but offer limited waivers to states that want to handle things differently and can prove that their approach will lower the cost of health care or increase coverage.

So long as states can create and fund a high-risk coverage pool for affected consumers, they can apply for limited waivers from the community rating provision of the Affordable Care Act, which requires insurers to cover those with pre-existing conditions.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#185485: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:19:31 PM

[up]X3 So change the way campaigns are funded, made it down via public funds or small personnel contributions, or just money from the central party fund.

That's not my argument though. I'm never said it only comes from one angle.

No you've just ignored every other angle, totally different..

Also a state level study has its limits, there's upward political mobility from state level office towards national office, that will make a difference, as a term limited state senator can go to congress, but a term limited congressman is looking almost exclusively at the private sector for their future.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:21:02 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#185486: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:19:44 PM

Trump won because of the common moron who got swindled by his twisted version of charisma. Actual elites - intellectuals, business leaders, politicians, etc - overwhelmingly went for Hillary.

Intellectuals can hardly be called real elites in this country, and people with more money tended to pull more for Trump, then Clinton. Clinton can hardly be said to have gotten the elite vote anymore then Trump can say that the common man was on his side when poor voters went overwhelmingly for Clinton.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#185487: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:22:42 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking job offers in the private sector would be much more tempting to people with term limits.

They're given that anyway when they lose. It's called their safety net.

Also nice to see more agree with my assertion that politicians are frequently bought by the private sector and helped out with job offers after they're done.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#185488: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:23:55 PM

Fox News Poll: Only 36% of Voters would Re-Elect Trump, and only 49% of Trump Voters would. (This link is from the Week if you don't want to go to Fox) The Poll also indicates that 47% of Voters will vote for Democrats in 2018, and 5% of Trump Voters will vote for Democrats in 2018.

That sounds like Good news to me.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:25:02 PM by DingoWalley1

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#185489: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:25:02 PM

I always find it interesting even the conservative news groups report something like this. It's like a big sign that even they can talk it up or only do so much of it.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:25:11 PM by sgamer82

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#185490: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:27:20 PM

So change the way campaigns are funded, made it down via public funds or small personnel contributions, or just money from the central party fund.

I agree with this. There's a lot of things you need to change.

No you've just ignored every other angle, totally different..

Because I was specifically talking about the good in term limits. The angles you're bringing up is irrelevant to my argument.

It was just one aspect that I brought up about as to why I think term limits are good.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:31:04 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#185491: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:28:32 PM

@Dingo What matters is where all those people are located. You can have every Californian Republican vote for the next Democratic candidate and it won't matter.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#185494: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:34:48 PM

"Hillary won the popular vote and Trump won the electorate vote."

The average Electoral College voters are schlubs so breathtaking in their stupidity and barbarity that disenfranchising them would probably be a Nobel Prize-worthy accomplishment of humanitarian action and advance the cause of world peace. They are, almost literally, picked off the dirty streets, arriviste thugs unfit for any political role.

Actual elites were shuffled into the meaningless millions that constitute the popular vote.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:39:48 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#185495: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:39:44 PM

[up]Might tone down the rhetoric a touch, and provide more concrete examples than sweeping declarations, however feel-good they might be.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#185496: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:43:20 PM

"'8-year assault' on Second Amendment is over" There was no "assault". There couldn't be, because every time even reasonable legislation was proposed, it got immediately shot down (if you'll excuse the pun) by the GOP/NRA.

But go ahead, keep spreading the lie that the Obama era was nothing but "TAKING 'WAY OUR FREEDUMS!"

EDIT: [up] I can't come up with a ton of examples, but one of the most prominent ones was that elector from Texas who wrote a threatening letter to a citizen who requested he change his vote from Trump to Hillary. He threatened to sue her on really flimsy grounds and ended the letter with "deplorably yours".

edited 28th Apr '17 12:50:25 PM by speedyboris

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185497: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:45:31 PM

[up] Amusingly enough, gun sales have been down ever since Trump's win.

During the Obama "TAKE YOUR GUNS" years, increased demand fueled by a manufactured threat to the supply + supply actually being just fine = money.

edited 28th Apr '17 12:50:11 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#185498: Apr 28th 2017 at 12:54:22 PM

One of the arguments I've seen against term limits for politicians (while living in a country where reelection is a big no), is as follows:

Politicians are ambitious. They have to be. Politics isn't the best career job, but it's prestigious.

So, being able to get reelected helps keep the politicians' egos in check: they get their "power" and prestige, and in exchange they've got to do good things for the people who elected, after all, if they don't they won't get reelected.

If you tell them they can only get elected once, most of them will see it as deadline for how much money, power, influence or favours they can get for themselves and their close circle in 2, 4 or 6 years.

In other words, term limits lead to corruption because politicians will no longer ask "what can I do so these people get me elected?" and instead they'll begin to ask "how much can I get out of the system in the X years I'll be in office?"

Also, experience helps. It's good to have politicians who have served for a long time for the experience and connections they bring to the game, tools that can be used to bring political opponents together for a specific piece of legislation that benefits many people.

FireCrawler2002 Since: Apr, 2017
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#185500: Apr 28th 2017 at 1:00:04 PM

NVM

edited 28th Apr '17 1:01:31 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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