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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I am inclined to agree that the flak Obama is receiving over this is undue. I don't think a paid speech by itself has any corruption potential - it's not like he's making a policy proposal in front of a wavering crowd or anything - and the money probably is better off in Obama's pockets than in whoever's is hearing it. We saw a similar situation with Hillary's speeches - mostly meaningless bluster it was, nothing suspicious in and of itself that was blown far out of proportion.
I think some people are annoyed at how frequently the "progressives are stupid/racist/whatever" drum is beaten to the point that the thread becomes a complaining thread. Which we specifically discourage in the forum rules.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanIt's not "progressives". I'm a progressive. It's the folks colloquially known as the "unicorn brigade", who apply a purity test to everyone in Democratic politics and refuse to concede that anything less than a perfect score makes a viable candidate. Then they attack Clinton and Obama for failing this test, but refuse to apply the same rules to folks like Sanders and Warren.
They insist that any influence from money in politics is anathema and that we're being driven towards a tyranny of the wealthy that can only be opposed by people taking to the streets, tearing down the banks, and putting the bankers up against the wall. They refuse to acknowledge counterarguments to this, they refuse to recognize any difference between the center-right and center-left, and they refuse to accept that practical politics is superior to messianic politics. And we have/had several of them in this topic, a few of whom had to be banned.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:08:29 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Do you have an alternative in mind? Otherwise we have to put in paragraphs of disclaimers every time we post making it unmistakably clear whom we're talking about. "Unicorn brigade" is an apt term. They believe there's a unicorn out there: a pure, unsullied candidate who espouses their ideals and can somehow get elected to high office on a groundswell of public enthusiasm.
That's not inherently bad, but then they refuse to countenance any candidate or policy that doesn't perfectly match what they want, while at the same time ignoring demonstrated flaws in their own candidates.
ETA: Frankly, the only reason I've put up with it so long is that it gives us something to talk about other than Trump BAD. And it is kind of relevant to 2018 and 2020 — we need the Democratic Party to come out and vote, and these incessant arguments over ideological purity sap the will of the voter base.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:12:34 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Septimus Heap: I don't know, I honestly still get the feeling that even if Obama/Clinton were white and male, the criticism directed at them would still be there. It has more to do with them beeing seen as corrupt and not "progressive" rather than anything else, so I think these racism accusations should not be thrown around like that.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:13:17 PM by Grafite
Life is unfair...![]()
if you want to talk about that, I have some great resources that can inform our conversation.
I think you guys are sort of missing the point of Septimus Heap's post. Whatever you call them, whenever you bring them up it becomes a complaining thread.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:17:50 PM by megaeliz
So Fox News Channel is in hot water again today, after Jesse Watters quipped that "I really like how [Ivanka] was speaking into that microphone"
when discussing a clip from the Women 20 conference Ivanka was attending in Berlin.
Watters' rebuttal so far is "On air I was referring to Ivanka's voice and how it resonates like a smooth jazz radio DJ. This was in no way a joke about anything else." Unless it was caught on-air, I somehow doubt that.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:17:20 PM by ironballs16
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
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Probably in the bubbles of proto-Sanders supporters. It was the primaries that turned it into an issue outside of those. If people hadn't made hay over it against Clinton, I doubt we'd be talking about it now with Obama.
I think it's more likely we're dealing with highest profile selection bias than other less savory forms of bias.
A lot of his domestic failures can be attributed to having to deal with a Congress controlled by people out to see him fail.
On the foreign policy front, he's more responsible for a decidedly mixed bag, though a lot of that was due to an unpredictable global environment and sentiment at home.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

It's just this conversation keeps going around in circles. Instead of discussing more recent politics, it's just retrying the same tired topic over and over again. It's not that I think that things like that shouldn't be Calle s out, but we discussed a similar topic several times back.
edited 27th Apr '17 11:50:46 AM by megaeliz